Canyon Endurace BB & Chain stay crack

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
gitarist
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:25 pm

by gitarist

Hello everyone,

Last November I bought my Canyon Endurace CF SLX 9.0 SL from Canyon Factory Outlet. About a month ago I noticed a crack on my bike, while I was changing the tyres before a race. Then I sent the photos to Canyon. They said that it is because of an outside impact, and not under warranty. They offer Crash Replacement Policy. But I am quite sure that there was not such crack until the summer. Because I put on and off the wheels last summer frequently, when I carried it in the car. I usually turn the bike upside down, when I put on the wheels, and I didn’t notice such a crack. Something happened in these three months, I think. But I didn’t involved any crash, also I live in Istanbul, and ride my bike only in tarmac surfaces. I cannot understand, how such a thing could happen. They said it could happen without my notice. But how such a strong place can crack without a notice ? Do you have any idea ?

Thanks in advance,

Ömer
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quango2k
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:33 pm
Location: Portsmouth UK

by quango2k

100% an impact mark there, It could be from a rock. Looking at it there is no way that is a manufacturing defect so its kind of a moot point. Either take them up on the crash replacement or send it into a carbon frame repair shop. I would imagine the repair would be a lot cheaper and it will come away looking like new again.

by Weenie


mag
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

It could theoretically happen as a result of manufacturing defect. There's a transition between the BB and the chainstay areas around there (they're mould separately and basically glued together afterwards) so this area is more susceptible to potential manufacturing defects (depending on where and how exactly the transition happens).

But this seems more like an impact damage to me. Theoretically it could be that you kept riding it for some time after it started to appear and thus it looks worse than it would otherwise, but it doesn't really look like that much.

I don't think you'll be able to prove that it isn't a result of some crash or mishandling or whatever. Is their crash replacement offer good? Maybe you could at least bargain for something more interesting...

Vermu
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am

by Vermu

Crash replacement is better when the bike is new and deteriorates by age.
Not expensive to repair, but I would use crash replacement


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AJS914
Posts: 3215
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I think Canyon's response kind of sucks for a less than 1 year old bike. That is a really odd area to take such a large hit. It's shielded by the wheel and the crankset. It's hard to imagine how a rock could fly up and do that much damage.

Omer, I'd clean up the frame so it looks spotless and then take new photos. I could escalate this with Canyon and ask really nicely again for a repair or replacement.

If that doesn't work I'd just get it repaired locally. That is an easy repair. Grind out the crack, fill it, and patch it. If you don't need matching paint and don't mind a carbon "bandaid" then the repair should be fairly inexpensive. Repainting to make it look perfect costs more than the carbon repair.

asiantrick
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:18 pm
Location: the OC, CA

by asiantrick

Definitely fixable and much cheaper than buying a new frame. Repainting shouldn't cost that much either.

hambini
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Bristol UK / Cologne, Germany

by hambini

Last year one of my colleagues had a problem with his Canyon bike. There was a problem near the bottom bracket area where a crack developed. There was a poor bond between the joints.

Canyon initially refused the warranty claim until a fairly stern response was written back along with a CT scan of the frame and a threat to use their carbon frame as a subject in a fracture mechanics conference...

They replaced the frame immediately. The new frame had a much thicker structure around the BB indicating they had altered the production run at some point.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I might be wrong, but are you sure it's not just the paint that has cracked?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

leicaman
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

A mate of mine had a crack appear on his top tube after about a year of riding. The bike hasn’t been crashed and he doesn’t sit on his top tube. Canyon’s response was pretty similar to what they told you. It’s not their fault and they reckoned it had been involved in a crash. I know it hadn’t as we always ride together. They offered him a crash replacement frame which was pretty expensive. I would steer clear of Canyon and their terrible customer services (it took them around 6 weeks to respond to his email).

gitarist
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:25 pm

by gitarist

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:08 pm
I think Canyon's response kind of sucks for a less than 1 year old bike. That is a really odd area to take such a large hit. It's shielded by the wheel and the crankset. It's hard to imagine how a rock could fly up and do that much damage.

Omer, I'd clean up the frame so it looks spotless and then take new photos. I could escalate this with Canyon and ask really nicely again for a repair or replacement.

If that doesn't work I'd just get it repaired locally. That is an easy repair. Grind out the crack, fill it, and patch it. If you don't need matching paint and don't mind a carbon "bandaid" then the repair should be fairly inexpensive. Repainting to make it look perfect costs more than the carbon repair.
Hello AJS914, thank you for your support. Of course, I can take more clear photos. You mean, you have some connections at Canyon, that can help me, or did I misunderstand you ?
And also have you seen wheelsonfire’s comment ? Could it be just a paint crack ? A friend of mine told me that matte finishes are more fragile than shiny finishes.

gitarist
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:25 pm

by gitarist

wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:08 am
I might be wrong, but are you sure it's not just the paint that has cracked?
Hi WheelsOnfire, a friend of mine thought just like you and he also thinks that if there is a carbon crack, there should be a cracking sound that draws your attention when you try hard for example in the ramps out of the saddle. But there isn’t any strange sound coming from the bike.

gitarist
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:25 pm

by gitarist

hambini wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:48 pm
Last year one of my colleagues had a problem with his Canyon bike. There was a problem near the bottom bracket area where a crack developed. There was a poor bond between the joints.

Canyon initially refused the warranty claim until a fairly stern response was written back along with a CT scan of the frame and a threat to use their carbon frame as a subject in a fracture mechanics conference...

They replaced the frame immediately. The new frame had a much thicker structure around the BB indicating they had altered the production run at some point.

Hambini
Hi Hambini,

Your friends idea is very wisely. I am working at Istanbul Technical University as a mathematician. Maybe I can find at the Materials Engineering department a CT Scan machine, I will search for this. Thanks for your help.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Nothing can beat a CT scan. My UP bikes has worse paint damage than your bike due to chain jumps. However, by the looks of your picture, the damage look just like my bike.
I wonder if you can use a feeler gauge, to see if there is a crack
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

AJS914
Posts: 3215
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

gitarist wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:53 pm
Hello AJS914, thank you for your support. Of course, I can take more clear photos. You mean, you have some connections at Canyon, that can help me, or did I misunderstand you ?
And also have you seen wheelsonfire’s comment ? Could it be just a paint crack ? A friend of mine told me that matte finishes are more fragile than shiny finishes.

I don't have any connections with Canyon, sorry. My only suggestion is when one has to take pictures like this that they do it on a clean, spotless bike. When you send the company dirty pictures, the bike looks used and abused and they are less likely to be sympathetic. It sounds like Canyon has a pattern of denying claims.

You can do the basic tap test with a piece of metal (like a coin). Tap the carbon and if it sounds dead then the carbon is broken. Tap the other side for a comparison of the sound.

by Weenie


spud
Posts: 772
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

Agreed, that does not look like an impact to me. A sheltered area that is unlikely to receive a direct hit with a high mass object, on a surace which is probably not perpendicular to a a strike vector caused by a rock kicked up by the front wheel. If it was impact, it would have to be something hard, which would leave one or possible two impact marks. That area is a mess, "appearing" to have multiple strikes. If you have access to a scan, that would be beneficial.

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