Shipping SRAM to US from online suppliers? Etap

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
moonoi
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Earth

by moonoi

jlok wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:21 am
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:53 am
I got etap from my lbs when it went on sale this fall. It was more than r2bike... but then the lbs spent the time uninstalling my di2, installing and setting up etap, at no charge. The service that day, and later days with other bikes was free. The extra cost was quickly eaten up and then some.

A wise biking friend advised me to pick a lbs, and support them. If you support them, they support you. Everything i get is always discounted. Service is great.

I only get things i can not get locally... like my exotic lightweight parts.
Good to see that. Not many people have the wisdom to appreciate LBS support. You keep them survive, you survive. There will be countless time that we need our LBS no matter how good our maintanence skills are.
Only if your LBS is actually any good though, I'm not going to support an LBS just because they are there, they need to actually know their stuff and be able to do things I can't do myself, which unfortunately isn't the case quite often. So it should be, only support your LBS if they are actually worth supporting.

That said, my LBS is excellent and often sells parts cheaper than I can source online including SRAM kit :wink:

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:53 am
A wise biking friend advised me to pick a lbs, and support them. If you support them, they support you. Everything i get is always discounted. Service is great.
In certain countries they'd be called an idiot. Over here it's the best way to make your money not go very far.

Thankfully the distributors have woken up to this over the last handful of years, pricing is now only ~25% worse in shops compared to ~50% when i started shopping here.
Added to this a good number of the smaller shops use the big mail order places as their suppliers. Delivery is quicker, they stock a wider range of parts and they are cheaper. It's also easier to deal with them for warranty. Only issue is working out the VAT!

Oh, it's not price fixing either, thats illegal. And attracts huge fines.

by Weenie


jlok
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

moonoi wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:53 am
jlok wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:21 am
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:53 am
I got etap from my lbs when it went on sale this fall. It was more than r2bike... but then the lbs spent the time uninstalling my di2, installing and setting up etap, at no charge. The service that day, and later days with other bikes was free. The extra cost was quickly eaten up and then some.

A wise biking friend advised me to pick a lbs, and support them. If you support them, they support you. Everything i get is always discounted. Service is great.

I only get things i can not get locally... like my exotic lightweight parts.
Good to see that. Not many people have the wisdom to appreciate LBS support. You keep them survive, you survive. There will be countless time that we need our LBS no matter how good our maintanence skills are.
Only if your LBS is actually any good though, I'm not going to support an LBS just because they are there, they need to actually know their stuff and be able to do things I can't do myself, which unfortunately isn't the case quite often. So it should be, only support your LBS if they are actually worth supporting.

That said, my LBS is excellent and often sells parts cheaper than I can source online including SRAM kit :wink:
Your right, and that's why I said wisdom. You need to know your stuffs before you could judge if the LBS worth supporting. That requires experience as well. Newbies gotta pay up and learn, either by actually paying or learning from the others' mistakes.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

jlok wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:21 am
Good to see that. Not many people have the wisdom to appreciate LBS support. You keep them survive, you survive. There will be countless time that we need our LBS no matter how good our maintanence skills are.
No one can beat crc/amazon/wallmart/etc on pricing. No one can compete with the leverage.

The future of small business is service, relationships. The irony of the rock bottom online retail is that the more they succeed, the less ground floor service survives. But Online retail needs lbs service. Or maybe the future of bikes is disposable bikes. Replace when not operating properly.... i don’t like that future.

I gan google diy video, turn a wrench, but i know enough to know that i do not know enough. I agree with you 100%. Sometimes you need experience to solve or diagnose a problem, and experience comes from numbers... numbers that i hope to get, but do not have currently.

The time i spend working on my bike i do out of choice and enjoyment. The time i save having a lbs work on it, i spend with friends and family. Or i chat at the “bar” with the techs as they work on my bike (my lbs is progressive). Time is my most valued, and limited resource.

I do not criticise those looking for deals also. We all want that... but i have learned that the best “deals” long term are actually through the support of the lbs.

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

moonoi wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:53 am
That said, my LBS is excellent and often sells parts cheaper than I can source online including SRAM kit :wink:
;-)

And i bet you don’t get those prices being some stranger walking in off the street. A good lbs invests in a good client. They want your loyalty, and you only get it if you buy a lot (short or long term). Mind you, the strategy is often to give a great deal from step one to get them hooked and returning, build the relationship, and make money on the extras and service.

Or

You live in an aera where competition between lbs’ is very high, and you can command the best price. They deal with large volume, so can live off smaller margins per sale, and get better deals on per unit pricing due to volume they deal with.

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

mattr wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:54 am
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:53 am
A wise biking friend advised me to pick a lbs, and support them. If you support them, they support you. Everything i get is always discounted. Service is great.
In certain countries they'd be called an idiot. Over here it's the best way to make your money not go very far.
The advice comes from a friend who owns his own business, and who has far more money than I, and more than most people probably reading this. His busisness is in service. And he is probably where he is now because he knows the value of a smart employee. Those that are “valuable” get paid a lot and are treated very well, those that are not... are asked to move on.

I am a cheap as they come. I saved money when i built a good relationship with a good lbs. i did the math. Good service/knowledge is becoming rare. A wise man supports good service/knowledge when they find it.

Good prices are a dime a dozen. The smart man knows to value good service, and to guard it.

I like modern and vintage sports cars. I have a strong relationship with what are probably the two best mechanics for days (one for the old cars, one for the new). Anyone can buy a nice car, but expert HONEST EXPERT service/skill is rare. I race cars, they race cars. One even worked with trg porsche, and aston martin racing teams. They know their stuff, and we mesh because i respect them, listen, and learn. We are all enthusiests.

Like cars, I like my bikes custom racy, and a bit exotic. The lbs owners/employees that wrench on my bikes, all race bikes. One is the local cyclocross and xc champion. One was a past national road champion. They are also enthusiasts, not just salesman. Their good advice has saved me a lot of failures and money. The times i think i knew better, most often i was wrong, and i tell them when it happens.

I buy products like Darimo because they are small enough, and passionate enough to care to listen to my design requests... incorperating what they know will work, shooting down what will not work. They are enthusiasts, sharing a love of engineering as i do.

In cars and bikes, i reasearch, i question, i listen, and i learn. And i am learning from some of the best. The value on that is hard to price.

I befrended a university engineering proff who taught me the math to calculate engine combistion efficiency. He is an enthusiast, and we talk engine design over coffee. I befrended an ibm programmer who studied air/fuel models for porsche 911’s as a hobby, and made a custom intake/fuel system that he now sells. He is an enthusiast.

I learned from these guys... and worked with a man that built exhausts and mufflers his entire life. I studied the engine design of my 911, and designed the best performing muffler/headers i have seen to date. My cars engine makes more power on 91 octane fuel than any other similar engine to date. Strangers in the 911 world now call me for engine build advice.

People can buy ferraris, dogmas. I would rather find the people who engineer and build those products with love, and with their help, learn how to build something even faster. It is half the fun of the hobby.

Support a knowledgable enthusiast lbs, listen, and learn... it will save both money, and give you free knowledge/wisdom.
Last edited by RocketRacing on Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Double post

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:22 pm
I can google diy video, turn a wrench, but i know enough to know that i do not know enough. I agree with you 100%. Sometimes you need experience to solve or diagnose a problem, and experience comes from numbers... numbers that i hope to get, but do not have currently.
I'm probably 20 years ahead of you then. Theres nothing i've found either on my own bikes, or those i service/build/work on, that i can't fix/build/service in at least the last 15+ years. The stuff i've done at work in the same period is significantly more complex.
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:22 pm
I do not criticise those looking for deals also. We all want that... but i have learned that the best “deals” long term are actually through the support of the lbs.
Only if i can negotiate a 35% discount. And actually find a shop with a competent mechanic. Rather than a parts cannon.
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:16 pm
I would rather find the people who engineer and build those products with love, and with their help, learn how to build something even faster.
Yeah, that's my job, and my previous job. (And the one prior to that, but that was jet engines)

RocketRacing
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

You make a good point. At a certain stage in the hobby, many gain the experience, skill and personal preferences to not require the help or care much of the opinion of others. Service means little because if you want it done right, you do it youself, and you know what you want, and how you like it.

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