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Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:09 pm
by bilwit
exFictitiouZ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:49 pm
How much is the difference between Dura-Ace and Rotor 3D24 with P2M NG Eco? I assume you mean plain Dura-Ace w/o power meters?
I have the weights recorded somewhere at home but I recall it being a touch over 200g between DA9000 w/ Stages versus Rotor3D+ w/ NoQ+NG Eco. I didn't weigh the rings separately but the NoQ rings I'm sure are a big chunk of that.

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:54 am
by achiu
Ultegra 8000 crankset 170mm without chainrings and no PM is 534g
Rotor 3D24 with P2M NGEco 165mm without chainrings is 624g

Alex

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:54 am
by Weenie

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:32 pm
by alcatraz
Is there a spider based pwm that can be transferred to different cranks?Never seen one, hmm.

You sound like you got things under control. I wouldn't worry too much.

I just don't like spending too much on stuff I don't know will be usable after the next bike/crank upgrade. I went with a carbon stages arm on sram red crank and extralite rings. 470gr power meter crank (bb30) with chainrings.

As for the heavier aero/tt bikes anything is ok really. I don't find the accuracy lacking enough to go double sided. Maybe in the future, who knows.

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:16 pm
by bilwit
bilwit wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:09 pm
exFictitiouZ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:49 pm
How much is the difference between Dura-Ace and Rotor 3D24 with P2M NG Eco? I assume you mean plain Dura-Ace w/o power meters?
I have the weights recorded somewhere at home but I recall it being a touch over 200g between DA9000 w/ Stages versus Rotor3D+ w/ NoQ+NG Eco. I didn't weigh the rings separately but the NoQ rings I'm sure are a big chunk of that.
here it is, guess my mind rounded up:

789.3g ROTOR 3D+ 170mm, noQ 53/36, Power2Max NGEco
634.1g Dura Ace 170mm 52/36, Stages Gen 2

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:45 pm
by exFictitiouZ
bilwit wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:16 pm
here it is, guess my mind rounded up:

789.3g ROTOR 3D+ 170mm, noQ 53/36, Power2Max NGEco
634.1g Dura Ace 170mm 52/36, Stages Gen 2
Thank you.
alcatraz wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:32 pm
Is there a spider based pwm that can be transferred to different cranks?Never seen one, hmm.

I just don't like spending too much on stuff I don't know will be usable after the next bike/crank upgrade. I went with a carbon stages arm on sram red crank and extralite rings. 470gr power meter crank (bb30) with chainrings.
The option is fairly limited but not impossible. Praxis Works Zayante for instance uses SRAM 3-bolt interface. Apart from that the crank/spider interface tends to be consistent for a particular brand, so if the crank gets better in the next itiration of FSA K-Force, for example, you can move.

I don't like spending on stuff that can't move with the bike too. And your Stages carbon crank is an exception. Amongst all products Stages offers, this is their only 'non-series' offering that will move with SRAM updates without visual mismatch. Good choice!

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:31 am
by dcorn
bilwit wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:16 pm
789.3g ROTOR 3D+ 170mm, noQ 53/36, Power2Max NGEco
634.1g Dura Ace 170mm 52/36, Stages Gen 2
Interesting. Just weighed my new crankset that I got in the mail.

Rotor 3D24, 172.5mm arms, Praxis 52/36 Buzz chainrings, P2M NGeco - 795g

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:58 pm
by bilwit
dcorn wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:31 am
bilwit wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:16 pm
789.3g ROTOR 3D+ 170mm, noQ 53/36, Power2Max NGEco
634.1g Dura Ace 170mm 52/36, Stages Gen 2
Interesting. Just weighed my new crankset that I got in the mail.

Rotor 3D24, 172.5mm arms, Praxis 52/36 Buzz chainrings, P2M NGeco - 795g
Sounds about right. I didn't weigh the rings separately myself but looking on youtube, NoQ rings are ~180g and Praxis is ~135g while the difference between the 3D+ and 3D24 spindle is ~50g

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 am
by kafreeman
Rotor 3d24 power2max ng with 52/36 Praxis rings: 792 g
Rotor 3d24 power2max ng with 46/36 Praxis rings: 779 g

Shimano FC8000 52/36: 726 g
Shimano FC6800 46/36: 686 g
Shimano FC5800 50/34: 738 g

So a 70g to 90g bump from equivalent Ultegra level cranks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:16 pm
by lazypete
I have a 2 BB86 frames (Merida cyclo-cross and Genesis Zero Disc) and a PF30 frame (Felt AR) and installed GXP bottom brackets in each, so I can swap the same Quarq Carbon crankset PM between each bike. It takes seconds to swap over, and if I particularly need to I change the chainrings (SRAM RED) without any calibration issues. Crankset 559g, 50/34 rings 126 / 28g (though have 52/36 on at the moment as less climbing).

Love the setup - fit and forget, as you say. It's been trouble free since purchased summer '17.

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:50 pm
by upacs
My 2c. Between a Powertap hub and a P2M go for the P2M, no question. From personal experience. The powertap works, but is not particularly durable, their bearings are not user serviceable and are made of string cheese (I had to replace them every 1.5 to 2 yrs), and having it on the wheel can be very annoying as you can't use any other wheel and still have power

Avoid tiny balls (bearings) on the bottom bracket, you will be cursing like a drunken sailor when the thing fails prematurely

I have a P2M pre type-s (with the temp compensation fix). I also have a (dead) Powertap G2 hub with a broken "torque tube". The repair costs almost as much as a new P2M NG Eco, so guess what I did? I bought a P2M NG Eco. Those P2M units are install-and-forget, just need a new battery once a year and you are golden.

For what it's worth I also have a Quarq DZero carbon. It's definitely not as hassle free as the P2M units: requires calibration, sometimes several times on the same day when I realize the power numbers it's giving me a totally out of whack. Also the CR2032 batteries may be ubiquitous, but don't last anywhere near as long as the ones in the P2M. Sure, the CR2450 is not so readily available as CR2032s, but I just buy a bunch online, always have a spare, and they last a looong time. The Quarq has a habit of running out of battery at the most inoportune moments 😬

But the Quarq is carbon..... mmmmmmh... 🤤.

If I was in the market for a power meter today I would either get another P2M (seriously, they are the dogs danglies) or a set of Assioma pedals (because I could take them as carry on for cycling holidays)

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:57 pm
by dcorn
My stock R8000 crank with 170mm crankarms and 52/36 rings was 684g.

I went from Ultegra crank with Powertap P1S pedals to Rotor/P2M/Praxis crank with Shimano 105 carbon pedals and the new setup is actually lighter because of the big difference in pedal weight.

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:08 pm
by exFictitiouZ
upacs wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:50 pm
My 2c. Between a Powertap hub and a P2M go for the P2M, no question. From personal experience. The powertap works, but is not particularly durable, their bearings are not user serviceable and are made of string cheese (I had to replace them every 1.5 to 2 yrs), and having it on the wheel can be very annoying as you can't use any other wheel and still have power

Avoid tiny balls (bearings) on the bottom bracket, you will be cursing like a drunken sailor when the thing fails prematurely

I have a P2M pre type-s (with the temp compensation fix). I also have a (dead) Powertap G2 hub with a broken "torque tube". The repair costs almost as much as a new P2M NG Eco, so guess what I did? I bought a P2M NG Eco. Those P2M units are install-and-forget, just need a new battery once a year and you are golden.

For what it's worth I also have a Quarq DZero carbon. It's definitely not as hassle free as the P2M units: requires calibration, sometimes several times on the same day when I realize the power numbers it's giving me a totally out of whack. Also the CR2032 batteries may be ubiquitous, but don't last anywhere near as long as the ones in the P2M. Sure, the CR2450 is not so readily available as CR2032s, but I just buy a bunch online, always have a spare, and they last a looong time. The Quarq has a habit of running out of battery at the most inoportune moments 😬

But the Quarq is carbon..... mmmmmmh... 🤤.

If I was in the market for a power meter today I would either get another P2M (seriously, they are the dogs danglies) or a set of Assioma pedals (because I could take them as carry on for cycling holidays)
Sums everything perfectly and in consensus with other comments here. Very much appreciated.

Re: Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:56 am
by arty118
I used to have a P2Max with Rotor3DF (30mm spindle) on a BB86 frame. The bearing kept breaking I ended up having switched to Quarq Dzero GXP.