Power2Max or PowerTap G3, for a BB86 frame?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
exFictitiouZ
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:20 pm

by exFictitiouZ

Long time lurker, first time OP. Need some input from fellow WWs.

I'm planning to build a new bike, and it's a BB86 bike. I've also decided to get a power meter that just fits and forget. The choices have been narrowed down to either Power2Max and PowerTap G3. (I'll have only one wheelset as I don't race).

There have been a lot of new, light (?) crankset coming to market in recent years, e.g. Rotor Aldhu, Praxis Zayante Carbon, Easton EC90SL. (Not THM Clavicula please for obvious financial reason). But it's not always possible to get complete weights for each of them. They are all compatible with P2M. However all of them come with 30mm spindles. I don't know how durable are those 'adaptors' pressfit bearings that allows BB86 shells to accept 30mm spindles, e.g. Rotor 4130? In my experience I've always run 24mm spindles in frames designed for 24mm spindles and so far it's trouble free.

For wheels I'm looking at either Hed Ardennes Black or DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut OXiC.

So, in pursuit of lightness and practicality, what would you choose if it were you? SRAM Red Exogram (GXP) with PowerTap? Praxis Zayante Carbon with Power2Max NG and M30 BB? Any input is appreciated.

Oh the paradox of choice.

by Weenie


jfranci3
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Rather than running an adapter, I'd suggest giving up 60g and running the 24mm version of the Rotor. You spend 60g in adapting everything easily.

For double row - Looks like the trade offs are 8mm in wider Q factor (spindle width may be an issue) and the smaller balls may not deal with side loads as well. Chainline will be an issue too

For single row, you’re getting a 3mm narrower bearing, so you’ll have the opposite issue. The bearing is about 90% as strong vertically and will have more contact surfaces.

Maybe call Enduro and have them educate you on the differences in service life and friction.
Last edited by jfranci3 on Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
C36
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

I know it is not what you asked for but why not a pedal base PM?
You have no adapter problem.

Back to your problem, I recall powertap don’t have a fantastic geometry for rear wheel stiffness.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

exFictitiouZ
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:20 pm

by exFictitiouZ

C36 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:33 pm
I know it is not what you asked for but why not a pedal base PM?
This one is easy. Because I use certain lollipop-shaped pedals and I like them too much. :oops:

cro2
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:39 am

by cro2

C36 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:33 pm
I know it is not what you asked for but why not a pedal base PM?
You have no adapter problem.

Back to your problem, I recall powertap don’t have a fantastic geometry for rear wheel stiffness.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
This, plus the internals are just plain Novatec stuff.

User avatar
FIJIGabe
Posts: 1831
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

If you can wait, I heard on a podcast (Velonews or Cyclingtips) that PowerTap is starting to show their G4 hubs, so it’s probably only a matter of time until it’s released.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Madone 9 - https://bit.ly/2Nqedbn
Emonda SLR - https://bit.ly/2UK5FP8
Crockett - https://bit.ly/2Xem4sk

Madone 5, Cobia. I own a lot of Treks.

jfranci3
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

exFictitiouZ wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:59 pm
C36 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:33 pm
I know it is not what you asked for but why not a pedal base PM?
This one is easy. Because I use certain lollipop-shaped pedals and I like them too much. :oops:
I updated my above post. I think you’d spend 60g (the difference between a P2M Rotor 3D24 and P2m Rotor 3D 30mm anything) in getting a 30mm crank on a 24mm frame easily.

The only other option to consider would be the upcoming $180 IQ2 PM, but I assume it’s be June before you had a unit in hand. The 24mm P2M rotor would $490 + $75 (used) / $150 ( new) crank. If you don’t need rings, you can recover $100 on Praxis rings with their promo & ( and maybe $75 for your current crank)

exFictitiouZ
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:20 pm

by exFictitiouZ

Thank you everyone for the advice. Invaluable input.

dcorn
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

If you want latest and lightest, the Rotor Aldhu comes in a 24mm spindle and P2M makes a power meter for it. If you want cheapest, go with the P2M on a rotor 3D24 crank. Buy either before the 30th and get Praxis chainring for free. I just did the latter for my BB86 bike that currently houses an Ultrgra crank.

alcatraz
Posts: 2155
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

What about shimano cranks? Good shifting, easy to sell, relatively cheap, fits bb86 well.

Single/double sided crank arm mounted pwms are a cheaper option, or maybe the shimano original power meter if you have the dough.

With single sided you can still race, you just can't compare results between bikes. I just try to normalize the results. If one bike is 10% more than the other then I know how to compare the values.

If you have just one bike, it won't make any practical difference.

If you are buying a power meter, chances are you will be racing. :D

kafreeman
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:46 pm

by kafreeman

dcorn wrote:If you want latest and lightest, the Rotor Aldhu comes in a 24mm spindle and P2M makes a power meter for it. If you want cheapest, go with the P2M on a rotor 3D24 crank. Buy either before the 30th and get Praxis chainring for free. I just did the latter for my BB86 bike that currently houses an Ultrgra crank.
FSA are an option as well....but I also went with the 3D24.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


bilwit
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

For what it's worth, I run a Rotor 3D+ with P2M NG Eco on my BB86 bike. I chose it over the 3D24 just to chase a few grams to help offset the extra weight of the Rotor crank+NoQ rings versus Dura Ace (which is quite a lot). I originally put a Rotor 4130 BB in there because it was the cheapest solution but little did I know that it's notoriously crap. I had instant creaking problems with it. I replaced it with a C-Bear 4130 and it solved the issue completely. BB Infinite is also a solution I considered but it seems like a huge pain in the ass to remove if I ever need to get into my Di2 connections. I don't doubt that the bearings have a shorter lifespan just due to physics but I don't think that would be much of an issue. I keep a Shimano crank on my winter BB86 bike, though I'm considering getting the same build just to keep things perfectly consistent.

TiCass
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

bilwit wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:46 am
For what it's worth, I run a Rotor 3D+ with P2M NG Eco on my BB86 bike. I chose it over the 3D24 just to chase a few grams to help offset the extra weight of the Rotor crank+NoQ rings versus Dura Ace (which is quite a lot). I originally put a Rotor 4130 BB in there because it was the cheapest solution but little did I know that it's notoriously crap. I had instant creaking problems with it. I replaced it with a C-Bear 4130 and it solved the issue completely. BB Infinite is also a solution I considered but it seems like a huge pain in the ass to remove if I ever need to get into my Di2 connections. I don't doubt that the bearings have a shorter lifespan just due to physics but I don't think that would be much of an issue. I keep a Shimano crank on my winter BB86 bike, though I'm considering getting the same build just to keep things perfectly consistent.
I have the exact same setup but I went for the BBInfinite to replace my Rotor 4130. I'll let you know how it goes!

User avatar
prebsy
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: PHL

by prebsy

Agree with your sentiment of not wanting to run those baby bearings. P2M is great but I'd highly suggest a used quarq from the (riken,elsa,red) era in GXP. They can easily be had for $300-$400. Take your extra dollars and save the weight elsewhere.

by Weenie


exFictitiouZ
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:20 pm

by exFictitiouZ

alcatraz wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:01 am
What about shimano cranks? Good shifting, easy to sell, relatively cheap, fits bb86 well.

Single/double sided crank arm mounted pwms are a cheaper option, or maybe the shimano original power meter if you have the dough.

With single sided you can still race, you just can't compare results between bikes. I just try to normalize the results. If one bike is 10% more than the other then I know how to compare the values.

If you have just one bike, it won't make any practical difference.

If you are buying a power meter, chances are you will be racing. :D
In fact I'm running 1st gen Stages Ultegra left-sided PM. Back then it was sensible economically. But doubling your left-sided power isn't accurate. There are two independent tests by TOUR magazin and Swiss Cycling Federation that affirm this. (Not to mention frequent signal drops). Nowadays we can have total power at the price of single-sided power, so that's the 'upgrade' I'd like to move to.

I also find that having strain gauges built into certain groupsets (e.g. Stages, 4iiii, Pioneer) limits options down the road. This may or may not matter to some of us. For instance, I've Ultegra 6800 Stages PM. I've since changed to running SRAM Red, but have to stick with Ultegra cranks. It works fine but you see it's not very transferrable either. If I were to run Power2Max or PowerTap, they can be removed, refitted/relaced, and move on with future upgrades (with some limitations of course, but more freedom than being tied to one crankset)
bilwit wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:46 am
For what it's worth, I run a Rotor 3D+ with P2M NG Eco on my BB86 bike. I chose it over the 3D24 just to chase a few grams to help offset the extra weight of the Rotor crank+NoQ rings versus Dura Ace (which is quite a lot). I originally put a Rotor 4130 BB in there because it was the cheapest solution but little did I know that it's notoriously crap. I had instant creaking problems with it. I replaced it with a C-Bear 4130 and it solved the issue completely. BB Infinite is also a solution I considered but it seems like a huge pain in the ass to remove if I ever need to get into my Di2 connections. I don't doubt that the bearings have a shorter lifespan just due to physics but I don't think that would be much of an issue. I keep a Shimano crank on my winter BB86 bike, though I'm considering getting the same build just to keep things perfectly consistent.
How much is the difference between Dura-Ace and Rotor 3D24 with P2M NG Eco? I assume you mean plain Dura-Ace w/o power meters?

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post