Power Meters

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Lewn777
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:40 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:43 pm

I wasn't trying to show the best deal of the century, I was just trying to show that a crank spider based PM need not be more expensive than any other kind of PM from a random sample of what things cost on some of the most popular online stores.

But they are more expensive... Spider based PMs are great for usage cases where Assiomas aren’t appropriate like CX/gravel or strong preferences for Speedplay/SPD-SL. But it’s hard to ignore how ridiculously good today’s Assioma Duo pricing is. It’s dual-leg power for the price of one-leg.
Pedal based power meters are simply an option. They are prone to damage, poor weather, have weird bulges and often propreitary and near unwalkable cleats. They are generally not a good option, when, for a tiny bit more money, and in some cases almost nothing, you can get a spider based power meter.

You are potentially misleading people into buying products that might be wrong for them. There's enough people screaming about the amazing-ness of Stages PM's that actually seem to be an overpriced, inaccurate and prone to failure product. Nobody needs an army of fanboys for any product or some zealot drum-banger unable to see things objectively. I had the balls to suggest that a Garmin Edge 520 wasn't that fantastic over two years ago and was attacked for being a heretic. The fact is that actually Garmin are 'okay' and that other options are mostly not without their downsides.

People are different and have different needs. In fact I may buy some Assiomas just becuase I live between two countries and rent bikes in other places so having an easily removable PM option is great. But for my main bike and most people's, a spider based PM is the undoubtably best and most logical, reliable and accurate location for a PM.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I’m not misleading anyone. I’ve detailed the cleat compatibility issues in a previous reply...also listed their stack/q differences. All road cleats have more or less the same walkability, so the main thing is whether people have a preference for "not KeO" or ride CX/gravel...also mentioned.

The potential damage issue is overblown. I have crashed pretty numerous times and while my old Vector 2s have maybe .5mm of plastic scraped off the side, they are still working just fine 3 years later.

Additionally I have not heard of ingress issues with any of the pedal PMs. The only PM I know of with corrosion issues is the Stages gen1 and its crappy battery doors / enclosure breaking all the time. That problem was largely fixed with the gen2 design.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


spdntrxi
Posts: 3105
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I've had Vectors since release... upgraded them to 2 (on tri bike now) and have v3. Been riding crap weather with no issues. I fubar'd a silver pod on my v1's by wacking it into a concrete step in front of my house, the plastic ones are more robust and ofcourse no pods (v3) even better. My power meter preference is pedals. I will eventually end up using a stages on the allroad bike because I want to use XTR pedals and proper CX shoes.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

For a bike equipped with SPD, eggbeaters, etc. I guess my personal preference would be Quarq, but I really have no strong feelings for any of the spider or crank options.

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Lewn777
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:47 am
I’m not misleading anyone.
So you'd tell a new rider that had money thought money wasn't an object to buy Assiomas, or you'd tell them to buy a spider based PM?

angrylegs
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm

by angrylegs

Stages is OK. Not great, but it works well enough to be useful. I get some drops here and there, but the average and max data is fine. Repeatable and accurate enough with itself. It's annoying when it gets a drop when you look down to see the power, and it can be somewhat unreliable if this happens during a short interval. I don't regret it. It's light and fairly cheap, but I won't be getting Stages again.

Pedal-based meters are a bit heavier than regular pedals and have that little more rotational mass. I swear I can tell the difference, just like I do when I wear lighter shoes, but it could be all in my head. If you have a cleat preference they could be an issue for you but generally they're pretty good.

Honestly, having had a Quarq for a long time and witnessing how bomb proof it is, accurate, always works, I'll be going back to a spider-based power meter on my next bike. No more messing around with alternatives. I just prefer it. It's just that much better on a spider imho.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Lewn777 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:50 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:47 am
I’m not misleading anyone.
So you'd tell a new rider that had money thought money wasn't an object to buy Assiomas, or you'd tell them to buy a spider based PM?

Higher price doesn't correlate directly with the overall quality of a power meter. Infocranks are very expensive, but they are heavy and devour batteries. SRM Exakt pedals are more expensive than any of the other pedal options, but they have the clumsiest installation process, and IMO they are the most likely to suffer structural damage in a fall.

A new buyer should read the thread and decide for themselves which features they like in the various styles of PMs. They should also consult external sources like DCR's PM buyer's guide. Pedal PMs make a lot of sense for some people, and the Assiomas are quite affordable. The OP was also at least interested in keeping spending down, as he was initially weighing a couple of left-only options.

The fact that he threw in the Verve Infocrank option confuses me...I don't see that as the single best option for anyone.

RyanH
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by RyanH

+1 for stages...my max power is now litttt (when it's not busy reading zero)...

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Kraaf
Posts: 557
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Location: Netherlands

by Kraaf

40K, that’s quite a respectable number.

The idea that crank based is superior to pedal based (or vice versa) is baseless. I love my SRM’s but would never say they’re the best choice for everyone, not even for most.
Anecdotally, I’m not seeing the best experiences with Stages. Vector 3’s would be my bet for pedal based, but that is obviously also a matter of budget. Maybe I missed it in this thread, but DCRainmaker.com is a great source for info, though I do think he’s quite fortunate in almost never receiving a unit with any issues (as I understand the manufacturers send them directly to him and he sends them back after). His testing is very thorough and his powermeter roundups give a great overview.

Edit: just noticed the link to DCR in the post above, sigh.
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jlok
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Kraaf wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:18 am
40K, that’s quite a respectable number.

The idea that crank based is superior to pedal based (or vice versa) is baseless. I love my SRM’s but would never say they’re the best choice for everyone, not even for most.
Anecdotally, I’m not seeing the best experiences with Stages. Vector 3’s would be my bet for pedal based, but that is obviously also a matter of budget. Maybe I missed it in this thread, but DCRainmaker.com is a great source for info, though I do think he’s quite fortunate in almost never receiving a unit with any issues (as I understand the manufacturers send them directly to him and he sends them back after). His testing is very thorough and his powermeter roundups give a great overview.

Edit: just noticed the link to DCR in the post above, sigh.
I always refer to his review for PM information. His testing is quite good, and the best is the open comment section. I think he's very fortunate lately (esp the Vector 3), up to a point I believed he deliberately hid the problem. Anyway, he did allow people to leave complaints and that's fine then. That's invaluable.
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Seedster
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm

by Seedster

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Higher price doesn't correlate directly with the overall quality of a power meter. Infocranks are very expensive, but they are heavy and devour batteries. SRM Exakt pedals are more expensive than any of the other pedal options, but they have the clumsiest installation process, and IMO they are the most likely to suffer structural damage in a fall.
Interesting. How did you arrive at the opinion they are more susceptible to structural damage than other powermeter pedals such as vectors, assiomas or P1s? They’re robust and don’t see an obvious reason why they wouldn’t face similar damage propositions as other pedals during a crash or fall.

I have a pair of the EXAKTs and they have been flawless. They accept standard look cleats and have great battery life. Conversely, I just witnessed another set of V3s get warrantied yesterday. I’d rather the inconvenience of a calibrated install than returning several battery doors or burning through AAA batteries.

I went with EXAKTs because SRM service has always been great too. Otherwise, I would have like picked up Assioma.


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Last edited by Seedster on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Seedster wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:23 am

Interesting. How did you arrive at the opinion they are more susceptible to structural damage than other powermeter pedals such as vectors, assiomas or P1s? They’re robust and don’t see an obvious reason why they wouldn’t face similar damage propositions as other pedals during a crash or fall.

I have a pair of the EXAKTs and they have been flawless. They accept standard look cleats and have great battery life. Conversely, I just witnessed another set of V3s get warrantied yesterday. I’d rather the inconvenience of a calibrated install than returning several battery doors or burning through AAA batteries.

I went with EXAKTs because SRM service has always been great to. Otherwise, I would have like picked up Assioma.
High-end Look pedals have a "winged" or "blade" platform extension and it has the tendency to shear off. If that happens, the metal insert also dislodges. The solution is to not crash, so there is that.

Regarding battery doors, that problem has been fixed, but I guess Garmin will have to live with the history.

One key benefit to Exakts and also the Vectors is real KeO cleat compatibility. You can use KeO cleats with all the KeO-compatible pedals, but some aren't quite right. You can't use Xpedo cleats (Assioma, P1) with real Look pedals or Vector 3s.

rlanger
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:53 am

by rlanger

I'm a Speedplay guy so I ended up getting a crank-based PM. I opted for the 4iiii because it was the cheapest and lightest when compared with other cranked based PMs.

It's been perfectly reliable, it weighs only 9 grams, and the battery lasts for quite a long time.

I don't race anymore, but I do love pushing myself to improve on my own times on various Strava segments where I live, so a PM is invaluable to help me do that. And, I have to say that the 4iiii has exceeded my expectations in terms of performance. It's been rock solid with no dropouts or strange readings, even in all types of weather conditions.

Squashednuts
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:12 am
Location: Christchurch New Zealand

by Squashednuts

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:47 am
Squashednuts wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:06 am

Where are they being sold for $649?

That’s quite a bit cheaper than prices I’ve seen

Direct from Favero.com. Showing $646.00 currently thanks to the Euro dipping today.
Hey, thanks @ TobinHatesYou

Will get a pair soon
I’m ploughing my way through “The Time Crunched Cyclist”
Power meter will definitely help, just not my bank balance
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AndreLM
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm

by AndreLM

RyanH wrote:
my max power is now litttt
Sometimes I also get some 60+k power readings from 2 different P2M (type-S and NG-eco).

Almost sure my Edge 520 is the culprit here...

by Weenie


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