Campagnolo Potenza vs Shimano R7000/R8000

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
robertbb
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I still would have preferred a 12speed 12-32 cassette as follows:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29-32

(Basically the former 11speed 12-29 cassette with the 32 added in.) That's a nice cassette.

I'm not upgrading to 12s purely because the "upgraded" 12th cog (the 11t) is totally useless to me. Including with the sub-compact 48/32 crankset. And even downhill with a tailwind, or on a fast group ride.

by Weenie


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cveks
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by cveks

robertbb wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:43 pm
I still would have preferred a 12speed 12-32 cassette as follows:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29-32

(Basically the former 11speed 12-29 cassette with the 32 added in.) That's a nice cassette.

I'm not upgrading to 12s purely because the "upgraded" 12th cog (the 11t) is totally useless to me. Including with the sub-compact 48/32 crankset. And even downhill with a tailwind, or on a fast group ride.
Usual recreational riders use 11T like 0.5% of time.

Thats why 12-32T cassettes would have more sense . But that is standard now for some reason.

Unniti
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:35 pm

by Unniti

Can't really call it a fast group ride if you're not using the 11t, especially with subcompact cranks, can you now? You don't need much of a tailwind or rollers to go there if you're in a fast group ride.

I was on the 12t yesterday on my Z2 ride, add ~150 watts to that power with draft and you're spinning fast on the 11t.

bjarnetv
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:08 pm

by bjarnetv

yeah, i'm on semi compact on my new bike, and i use the 11t cog all the time, even when riding alone - on a fast group ride you would definitely be spending a lot of time there with a compact crank (unless you were going up a mountain)

Sin2000
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:19 pm

by Sin2000

Everyone is different. Personally I’m on 11 speed with 50-34 and 12-25. While I would VERY occasionally welcome an 11 tooth (downhill with a tailwind) I’m generally travelling at more than 35mph before I feel I need it and can reach 40mph before spinning out.

I find the 18 far more useful - 17, 18 and 19 are my most commonly used sprockets. The new 48-32 makes some sense with an 11 but the loss of an 18 sprocket in 12 speed cassettes means I’m reluctant to upgrade.

robertbb
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Unniti wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:59 am
Can't really call it a fast group ride if you're not using the 11t, especially with subcompact cranks, can you now? You don't need much of a tailwind or rollers to go there if you're in a fast group ride.

I was on the 12t yesterday on my Z2 ride, add ~150 watts to that power with draft and you're spinning fast on the 11t.
Sorry, what?

50x12 @ 90rpm is 50k/hr.
48x12 @ 90rpm is 48k/hr.

Up that to 100rpm and you're talking circa 54km/h...

So what Pro team re you riding for that you need the 11t to sit in with the group? :lol:

Unniti
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:35 pm

by Unniti

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:18 pm
Unniti wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:59 am
Can't really call it a fast group ride if you're not using the 11t, especially with subcompact cranks, can you now? You don't need much of a tailwind or rollers to go there if you're in a fast group ride.

I was on the 12t yesterday on my Z2 ride, add ~150 watts to that power with draft and you're spinning fast on the 11t.
Sorry, what?

50x12 @ 90rpm is 50k/hr.
48x12 @ 90rpm is 48k/hr.

Up that to 100rpm and you're talking circa 54km/h...

So what Pro team re you riding for that you need the 11t to sit in with the group? :lol:
Do people just not pedal at all on the slightest downhill? Or are they just Dutch or Danish and have never even seen anything but level ground? And I'm not even talking big downhills, it's all gentle rollers here, no need to drop down to small ring to get up the rollers even at Z2 power. Yet looking at my max speeds from the previous rides and they're 51.8 km/h, 49.0 km/h, 52.9 km/h, 45.4 km/h, 49.3 km/h, 51.8 km/h, 49.4 km/h, 53.3 km/h, and 55.8 km/h. And I can tell for a fact that all of those speeds have been while pedaling and excluding two they're all Z2 rides.

Considering the situation right now all my rides have been solo for months, but on a fast group ride you're gonna be on that 11t. That is if you're on anything but completely level terrain, especially if you've got a tailwind. Maybe not for long stretches at once, but there definitely are plenty of moments when it's needed. Being on the 11t isn't anything unheard even for my solo rides. I've got 48x12 on my gravel bike and there have been plenty of times when I've been out with it when the weather has been bad where I've went for a shift only to notice I'm already on 48x12.

iankovski
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:44 pm

by iankovski

robertbb wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:43 pm
I still would have preferred a 12speed 12-32 cassette as follows:

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29-32

(Basically the former 11speed 12-29 cassette with the 32 added in.) That's a nice cassette.

I'm not upgrading to 12s purely because the "upgraded" 12th cog (the 11t) is totally useless to me. Including with the sub-compact 48/32 crankset. And even downhill with a tailwind, or on a fast group ride.
I rather prefer some option on big gears than on small. Something like 32-30-28-26-24 and so on until the 14-12. I always found more difficult to keep your cadence on a climb with a big range that on flat when you ride at 40-45 km/h.

DaveS
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

Back to the original topic, Potenza is now dead. Centaur is the only remaining 11 speed group and only in rim brake. Chorus 12 is the lowest level disc brake group.

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Groups ... les?f=1000

Vespasianus
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 pm

by Vespasianus

DaveS wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:24 pm
Back to the original topic, Potenza is now dead. Centaur is the only remaining 11 speed group and only in rim brake. Chorus 12 is the lowest level disc brake group.

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Groups ... les?f=1000
So, can Centaur be compared head to head with R7000? With R8000?

Tychom
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:29 am

by Tychom

Vespasianus wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:30 am
So, can Centaur be compared head to head with R7000? With R8000?
Campagnolo would have you believe Potenza is an Ultegra rival, which would have been probably 6800 at the time of release.

Centaur is one down the chain and a totally different derailleur design so who knows how well it works in reality.

Seems it was destined for cheap full Campagnolo kitted out bikes but hard to imagine buying it individually as the derailleurs/shifters are incompatible with the rest of the Campagnolo 11 speed range so no upgrading possible.

robertbb
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

There are/were elements of the (HO) Potenza that improved apon the higher marques in the 11sp line:

- The shape of the clamp interface to the bar (the back of the hood) actually improved... better compatibility with different bar shapes
- The chainline in the HO moved from 43.5 to 44.5, so it's compatible with the new 12sp cranks (thus the chorus sub-compact)
- The droopy thumb lever is easier to reach from the drops...

Shame to see it go. It really is a wonderful groupset.

Vespasianus
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 pm

by Vespasianus

Tychom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:06 am
Vespasianus wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:30 am
So, can Centaur be compared head to head with R7000? With R8000?
Campagnolo would have you believe Potenza is an Ultegra rival, which would have been probably 6800 at the time of release.

Centaur is one down the chain and a totally different derailleur design so who knows how well it works in reality.

Seems it was destined for cheap full Campagnolo kitted out bikes but hard to imagine buying it individually as the derailleurs/shifters are incompatible with the rest of the Campagnolo 11 speed range so no upgrading possible.

R7000 is 105. I would hope Centaur is equivalent to the 105 rim brake version. R8000 is Ultegra and I don't think they can claim that Centaur, as it is today, is equivalent to R8000. No?

flying
Posts: 2376
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:39 am

- The droopy thumb lever is easier to reach from the drops...

Shame to see it go. It really is a wonderful groupset.
I agree & love the EPS like lever droop of Potenza.
Not just because of lever reach from drops but also when hands on hoods your thumb lays on it nicely
Instead of having that lever stick out like a shelf it lays down a bit allowing your thumb to also lay over it nicely


Good news though is the Centaur does also have this drooped power shift lever

I never understood any worry about one gear up per stab because it is actually more accurate & you can fire off
probably 3 upshifts in a second max if need be. But honestly the need to rapidly upshift so many gears would be very rare IMO
Untitled.jpg

by Weenie


DaveS
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

I'd say that Centaur is comparable to 105, particularly since it's not offered in a disc brake version.

On 7-19-2020 Campy will announce some of the changes for 2021.

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