What do you think of the chain wax?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Trying an old receipt, Purple Extreme. Though it's trainer season, so it'll be interesting to experience how good this goop is once out on the roads.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

TheRich
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

silvalis wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:18 am
And the squirt instructions specifically says to strip all existing grease
So just people being lazy?
In my case, that's a definite yes because that's a big ALL in that "all existing grease." But once that's gone, it's hard to argue that it's messy. It just isn't.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

From Squirt’s own documentation:
Dirt will generally not stick to Squirt Chain Lube, and the little bit that may, will
eventually flake off with the lube.

There is no need to remove wax from your chain again after applying Squirt Chain Lube. Just brush off occasionally with a dry brush and use a toothpick to remove some residue from the cassette and chain rings if necessary.

It might not be super greasy, but it will definitely be a bit messy/gunky. Even on an immaculately degreased chain, the small gummy bits of Squirt will be black or very dark gray from picking up contaminants on the road. Squirt has said in the past that they believe this is pulverized rubber from cars which the chain attracts via static charge, but it’s probably just soot in general from our human footprint.

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silvalis
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by silvalis

I usually wipe the chain immediately after applying to remove excess. Keeps the chain a lot cleaner.
Chasse patate

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I do that along with only applying the smallest drop to each link and mushing it into the rollers/pins. The reality is that most of the wax inside the roller/pin assembly gets flushed out as you load the chain. Again this is touted as a feature. Contaminants get into the assembly where they are encapsulated by the semi-solid wax and expelled.

Not nearly as tidy as real waxing, which is my current dry weather practice. If you ever want to see how much Squirt comes off an immaculate chain, just use it on an indoor trainer for a month. After a month, run your hand over the trainer mat directly underneath the drivetrain. Even in a contaminant free environment like that, you will get tiny boogers coming off the chain.

Of course real wax flings everywhere too, but I don’t need a toothpick to poke out large chunks that have accumulated after a couple months. Real wax truly just falls off or can be brushed off.

bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I am trying out a wax based lube made by Muc Off which also has PTFF. It goes on wet but dries quickly and has a waxey feel to it when you rub it between your fingers. I purchased it for the trainer and only have one ride on it so far. If it works out well I may use it for outdoors as well.
https://fortnine.ca/en/muc-off-dry-ptfe-chain-lube
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

So it's basically Boeshield T-9 (paraffin in solution) plus PTFE/Teflon. Probably good then...but they should offer it in a drip bottle. Wonder why it's only marketed on the moto side?

MikeD
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by MikeD

Remember when Dupont had that 100% pure Teflon lube? I still have a couple of tubes of it. I could never get it to work well because it was so thick (like grease) that getting it into the chain was difficult, and it seemed to pick up dirt. A bike shop employee raved about it though and said he worked it in with the fingers.

bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:43 am
So it's basically Boeshield T-9 (paraffin in solution) plus PTFE/Teflon. Probably good then...but they should offer it in a drip bottle. Wonder why it's only marketed on the moto side?
I am not sure why only on the moto side cause I know some shops carry Muc Off products for the bici but the only thing I can think of is the compatibility with X Ring/ O-Ring chains. I would think the O-Rings pretty much compatible with any chain lube though. I had been using the Motul offroad chainlube as it was non attracting to dirt and it seemed to work reasonably well.
The Muc Off sprays without being too messy and seems to penetrate the links as good as any chainlube I have used in the past. I still have only one ride on it so cant tell just yet how well it works. If it works good I will be tempted to run it through the summer months. It comes in a big spray can and isnt terribly expensive.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

I have a couple hours on the trainer with the Muc Off and there is not much coming off the chain onto the carpet. I have to say I'm impressed and happy with the lack of mess. The chain still has a wax film on it yet which means I have a few more rides left before cleaning and relubing. So far I'm thinking I might use this outdoors when it warms up.

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

szazbo
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by szazbo

Another take on MUC-OFF. Not impressed
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... sion-3.pdf

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

szazbo wrote:Another take on MUC-OFF. Not impressed
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... sion-3.pdf
$106.50 for 50 ml who is going to buy that.

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

szazbo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 pm
Another take on MUC-OFF. Not impressed
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... sion-3.pdf

You realize there’s like a dozen different Muc-Off lubes? If the one bikeboy1tr used indoors is like Boeshield T-9 + PTFE, it’ll be just fine to use indoors. I have used T-9 indoors and it doesn’t flake. It just needs to be wiped down once after application and perhaps once after the first trainer session.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

There was no flaking, no smells, very little for residue on the carpet. I always wipe excess off the chain when I lube it and I apply it on the inner side of the links so centrifugal forces push the lube through the links when you are pedalling. I'm sold so far.

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

froze
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

I don't have the time to read all of the posts so maybe this has been covered.

I use to use the hot wax method back about 40 years ago and it was a huge pain to do, so when TriFlow came out I embraced it wholeheartedly, and I found out that my chains lasted longer using TriFlow by about 7,000 miles! That's not a small amount of miles that could be sneezed off at. My chain life went from 8,000 miles to 15,000 on average, keep in mind too that those were the older stronger wider heavier chains than today's jewelry size light weight chains, but even those thinner chains if kept cleaned and oiled should last at least 8,000 miles because that's what I have on mine and it's still good. Not only did the chain last longer using oil but it also didn't start to rust like it would with wax. By the way, I was torturing my chains back then, I was racing back then (not a pro) as well, and doing a lot of mountain training and racing.

Of course oil does get dirtier so it does need to be kept clean, but that is the job of oil, oil gets dirty because it suspends debris on the surface of the oil and protects the metal gears better than wax can. In fact the reason chains and oil turns black is from aluminum oxide coming off the aluminum chainrings as you pedal, this AL oxide are tiny metal particles which acts like sandpaper and eats your chains and gears which is why it's important to keep the chain clean regardless of using wax or oil. Plus with wax you have to take the chain apart to do the hot wax method which is WAY superior to the drip on crap, but every time you take a chain apart, even using a special removable link, you take a greater chance of the chain breaking mid ride if you don't replace that link with a new one after every rewaxing. The reason some chains come with a heavy sticky wax from the factory is to protect the chain from salt air found on seaports and at sea when being shipped, and some chains come with a heavy sticky lube similar to chainsaw lube which does the same thing. The problem with wax is that it doesn't let the AL oxide particles to turn black like oil does, the particles are still there though, so people are lead into a false sense of security that the chain doesn't need cleaning...WRONG! This is probably why my chains back in the old days when I hot waxed didn't last as long because I thought the chain was clean! But this problem I had was shared by everyone that I knew that hot waxed.

I will never go back to hot waxing a chain, it's just too much work and hassle that I'm not going to do, cycling for me is fun, and work like hot waxing is not fun to me. But if you're going to wax then do it right and hot wax it, don't play with little squirt bottles of that crap, that bottle junk goes on too thin to do any good at protecting the chain. Just get on YouTube and watch videos on how it's done, while not complicated, and it's cheap, it's a lot time and work. I had two chains hanging that when I took one chain off to re-wax it I put one of the two pre-waxed chains on, I kept one chain for a spare in case I broke one on a ride which never happened. If you do decide to hot wax don't worry about any excess wax you see, it will flake off as you ride...but it's this flaking off business is why I don't like wax as a chain protectant, oil doesn't flake off.

Don't read about the pros using wax therefore you should too, what they don't tell you in those articles is that the pros discard their chains every 200 miles max and usually after every ride! There is a reason for that, first off they are specially treated with a specialized wax, and they know that wax is only good for about 100 to 150 miles and then the chain begins to wear because even their specialized wax doesn't protect, therefore the wax you and I would use doesn't even protect as well as theirs does!! https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... -it-321497

What's weird is that KMC recommends that you use their lube called Chain Lube Original, it's what they put on the chains when it leaves the factory, it's not an oil nor a wax, it's some sort of grease mixed with wax. And KMC recommends cleaning the chain with a mild soap like Dawn for Dishes (non citrus) on a sponge dampened with warm water, this is how I clean my chains before I went with Rock N Roll and still do after I think the Rock N Roll has been on too long without a good cleaning.

The lube I use one of two Rock N Roll lubes, one is the Gold which I use on my touring and commuter bikes because it holds up to rain really well without being an all out wet lube, and the other is Absolute Dry that I use on my road bikes. I am not saying that Rock N Roll is the best lube, personally after using many different lubes I've found there isn't a huge difference other then the drip on wax lubes that I found to be far inferior to oil based lubes. Rock N Roll won't discuss what their ingredients are, but I have it on "good" word that it's a petrochemical mix of wax, ceramic and PTFE (which I think is the stuff that settles to the bottom of the bottle, it's creamy and it's similar in appearance to PTFE that was originally used in Slick 50 before they changed to a non DuPont teflon which didn't work as well, and FinishLine Ceramic also had a creamy colored settlement), with some sort of membrane that connects the wax and ceramic with the PTFE oil and bonds it to the metal...or so they say! There is also a carrier mixed into the fluid that evaporates away which is why you need to wait overnight for that to evaporate before riding. Rock N Roll does leave the chain cleaner, and it lasts longer than other lubes I've tried which brings the expensive bottle of the stuff in line with others when you consider you don't have to lube it as much. And the Gold doesn't splatter like the wet lubes do. Another thing about Rock N Roll is that you need to start with a clean chain, then apply it per instructions but do so frequently for the first month like after every other ride, then after that you can go to just once every week; also wipe the chain down with a clean rag after every ride. But since I switched to Rock N Roll I haven't had to clean my chain at all, which is weird for me but the chains keep going.

by Weenie


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