Trying not to waste more money on bike fits

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
gurk700
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:38 pm
zefs wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:48 pm
You are correct about the headset height, yes.
Thanks! Then it turns out I should be able to ride my new Tarmac without spacers. :mrgreen:
gurk700 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:25 pm
This might be controversial but I'll go ahead and say,

1- You can easily learn bike fitting yourself. (Never had a bike fit. 5 years of hard training. 0 injuries. 0 discomforts.)
2- Your bike fit doesn't stay the same. (There is mechanics that won't change but some preferences will. I'm way more flexible than when I first started. This changes things)
3- A lot of bike fitters (not all) don't even know what they're doing. They look at numbers. We're not robots. We have a certain feel for things and might choose things that don't make sense from a purely lab-scientific point of view.
Thanks for your input. I agree with most points. However, this was started some 5 months ago, so now it's all done :mrgreen:
hahahah in any case, if the end result is you loving the ride and being comfortable on it...

glad it's figured out :beerchug:

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:15 am
Oddly I think the Tri/TT oriented ISMs are better suited for general road riding than their PN line. The PNs simply aren’t designed to ever sit up on with your pelvis rolled back into a “normal” position. If you do try an ISM, I would suggest staring with a PL 1.0.
I have PL 1.0 and PN 3.0 and 3.1. I like the latter two, but not the PL 1.0.
But since i changed bike and seatpost, i don't use them because i would have to buy another seatpost with even more setback.
Also, you risk to rub the inner thighs when pedalling. Part from that, i love these saddles.
I have tried to suggest that ISM would design a more narrow width saddle, but they don't find that a solution (sadly).
I'd like to try PN 1.0, but it doesn't seem to be more narrow than PN 3.0/3.1
Well, only on the widest part (-10mm), but not where thighs would be.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:24 pm
Hi guys,

rather silly question. I hope somebody can clear this for me. I have ordered my new bike (yay!), and just want to figure out how many spacers (if any) I will require.

As you can see from my two bike fits above, I was suggested a stack of 581 (or 571, depending on which of the two one wants to trust). I don't really know how the jig used for the fit accounts for headset top caps.

Now, my bike of choice will have a stack of 565mm. To get to 571/581, I need 6/16mm. To get there, I assume I should include in the total the headset top cap, correct? This means that I would need pretty much little to no additional spacers (depending on the height of the headset)?
What size did you end up with?

What stem length and handlebar?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

robeambro
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:18 am
robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:24 pm
Hi guys,

rather silly question. I hope somebody can clear this for me. I have ordered my new bike (yay!), and just want to figure out how many spacers (if any) I will require.

As you can see from my two bike fits above, I was suggested a stack of 581 (or 571, depending on which of the two one wants to trust). I don't really know how the jig used for the fit accounts for headset top caps.

Now, my bike of choice will have a stack of 565mm. To get to 571/581, I need 6/16mm. To get there, I assume I should include in the total the headset top cap, correct? This means that I would need pretty much little to no additional spacers (depending on the height of the headset)?
What size did you end up with?

What stem length and handlebar?
SL6 (yes I resisted the urge to get a Venge), size 56, zero offset seatpost, 100mm stem.

Should be fairly alright I think?

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

robeambro wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:04 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:18 am
robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:24 pm
Hi guys,

rather silly question. I hope somebody can clear this for me. I have ordered my new bike (yay!), and just want to figure out how many spacers (if any) I will require.

As you can see from my two bike fits above, I was suggested a stack of 581 (or 571, depending on which of the two one wants to trust). I don't really know how the jig used for the fit accounts for headset top caps.

Now, my bike of choice will have a stack of 565mm. To get to 571/581, I need 6/16mm. To get there, I assume I should include in the total the headset top cap, correct? This means that I would need pretty much little to no additional spacers (depending on the height of the headset)?
What size did you end up with?

What stem length and handlebar?
SL6 (yes I resisted the urge to get a Venge), size 56, zero offset seatpost, 100mm stem.

Should be fairly alright I think?
It's a nice bike, many seem to like it.
But it has a rather long (reach) and quite low (stack).

Strange that you didn't consider Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (56/L).
It had almost spot on the geometry you mentioned.

Reach 380mm
Stack 578mm
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

dim
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

if you are comfortable on the bike you have, and don't want to spend too much money on a bike fit .... have your cleats set properly by a bike fitter with a computerised system (retul fit etc) .... I'm going to have done as I will be buying new shoes .... cost is £50 and from people that I have spoken to, it's well worth the money
Trek Emonda SL6
Miyata One Thousand

robeambro
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:39 pm
robeambro wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:04 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:18 am
robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:24 pm
Hi guys,

rather silly question. I hope somebody can clear this for me. I have ordered my new bike (yay!), and just want to figure out how many spacers (if any) I will require.

As you can see from my two bike fits above, I was suggested a stack of 581 (or 571, depending on which of the two one wants to trust). I don't really know how the jig used for the fit accounts for headset top caps.

Now, my bike of choice will have a stack of 565mm. To get to 571/581, I need 6/16mm. To get there, I assume I should include in the total the headset top cap, correct? This means that I would need pretty much little to no additional spacers (depending on the height of the headset)?
What size did you end up with?

What stem length and handlebar?
SL6 (yes I resisted the urge to get a Venge), size 56, zero offset seatpost, 100mm stem.

Should be fairly alright I think?
It's a nice bike, many seem to like it.
But it has a rather long (reach) and quite low (stack).

Strange that you didn't consider Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (56/L).
It had almost spot on the geometry you mentioned.

Reach 380mm
Stack 578mm
Meh, the SL6 with a 100mm stem should be fine reach-wise (and before somebody says stem is too short, the 56 complete bike comes stock with it, so if Specialized engineers don’t think it’s short, I don’t see a problem).

On paper the stack of the SL6 is “quite low”, but again, just a 1cm headset cap should bring me close to the desired stack height..

To be honest I don’t see any reason to choose the Vial Evo.. I mean, I could use it with a 110mm stem and 6mm fewer spacers.. Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. Maybe I’m wrong?

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I don't think there is a wrong direction. If you wanted the SL6 and it suits you, it's great ;-)
I myself flicker between 110-120mm stem/ -8/-10.

I just hope Smud and Darimo comes out with -8/-10 stems (hopefully even 0.5cm increment option)
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

robeambro
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:57 am
I don't think there is a wrong direction. If you wanted the SL6 and it suits you, it's great ;-)
I myself flicker between 110-120mm stem/ -8/-10.

I just hope Smud and Darimo comes out with -8/-10 stems (hopefully even 0.5cm increment option)
Yeah 0.5cm increment options for stems would be great!

Oh and I've seen some pics of the Vial, looks sweet but I didn't see any discs, so wouldn't have been an option for me :mrgreen:

ODC
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:40 am

by ODC

Bikefits...who is right and who is wrong?
I have done 4 bike fits and never have gotten the same results.
Some results:
- the one bike fitter would put my saddle height 82,5cm (center bb to top middle saddle) the other bike fitters would put me at 81,5cm, 82,2 and 82cm
- the one bike fitter would put me on a setback of 10,5cm where a other would put me on 8,7cm for having more power
- the one bike fitter advised me to ride 177,5mm cranks, a other bike fitter calls it crazy and would put me on 172,5, 175 and 175mm cranks
- the one bike fitter says ride with 44cm handlebars where the other says take 42, 42 and even 40cm handlebars
- the one bike fitter says 10cm drop where an other says you can easily have 12, 14 and even 15cm drop
- the one bike fitter would say 59cm top tube with 14cm stem and an extreem other one says 57,5cm top tube with 13cm stem => 2,5cm shorter (almost same handlebar reach 0,5mm difference)
- All the bike fitters have put my cleats differently and one bike fitter even would have put shims under my right cleat.

You see what I mean?
Which bike fitter I have followed? None! I have taken the results and adjusted everything on how my feeling is best and the resulted in:
- saddle height 81,5-81,7cm
- saddle setback 9cm
- cranks 175mm
- handlebars 42cm cc
- top tube length 58,2cm with 14cm stem length
- handlebar drop 13cm
- cleats adjusted them with less painful feet

Now I have ordered a new Madone slr9 with the new Etap and it was the choose between a 58cm and 60cm frame.
Frame difference => 57,4 top tube vs 58,6cm top tube => current bike 58,2cm
Stack => 58,1 vs 60,1cm (top cap included) => current bike 60cm with top cap included
Reach => 39,6 vs 39,9cm => current bike 40-40,1cm
Stem length => max 13cm with trek
The salesperson is also a bike fitter and called me crazy to go for a 60cm. But I measured everything and even on a 60cm frame I would sit 0,5cm shorter because of only 13cm stems with trek. With the 60cm frame no spacers
With the 58cm I would sit 2cm shorter then my current bike (handlebar reach is the same) and I would need to put +/-2cm spacers.
I'm 1m93cm => 6'4" and I never saw (even professional riders) on a 58cm trek madone or they must have gotten an extreme position with a extreme custom stem.

zefs
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

There is no golden standard or "fixed number" for fit, different fitters put you on different positions because for every angle of our body on the bike there is an "optimal range" (which could be 1cm difference or even more, etc) and it depends on goals,flexibility,current fitness,injuries and ride characteristics so it's a mistake to think that every fitter should place you on the same position (even saddle height). It also depends on what feedback you give to the fitter.

What should be expected from each of these fitters is to have given you a correct assessment about body asymmetries,flexibility,how functional you are and provide solutions to these problems and ensure you are set up correctly, so you ride injury free.

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