For those buying a new machine... disc or rim?

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:26 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4

Cheers
I know it's kindergarten science, but I for one thought if not on a wet, technical descent, then where else could discs outperform rim brakes? :roll:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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KevinM
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by KevinM

I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

^I think that's an incorrect assumption and impossible to make as a generic statement like that. It depends a lot on what specific rim/caliper/rotor/pads/lever/setup you're comparing. There are poor/good setups on both sides of the equation.
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blutto
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by blutto

KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In point of fact they do not perform better in about 99% of bike time, that is, the time they are not being used, where they are just more dead weight, an aerodynamic drag, and a significant cost. And if the results of the down hill test done in that video linked above are to believed, their advantage, when used in even the most demanding conditions, could be deemed to be fairly insignificant.

But the one great advantage they definitely do have is allowing the use of high bling factor carbon wheels that aren't tubular ( and of course their ability to pad bank accounts ).

Cheers

KevinM
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by KevinM

blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:51 pm
KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In point of fact they do not perform better in about 99% of bike time
Cheers
Please do share the scientific data behind this fact. Not trying to be rude, but I think we’re dealing with opinion here, not fact. I can easily find articles online that agree with both arguments.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

If you can easily find arguments weighted toward both sides, why did you assume that discs are better in ALL situations? No need to answer, just sayin’.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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blutto
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by blutto

KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:00 pm
blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:51 pm
KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In point of fact they do not perform better in about 99% of bike time
Cheers
Please do share the scientific data behind this fact. Not trying to be rude, but I think we’re dealing with opinion here, not fact. I can easily find articles online that agree with both arguments.
So your contention is it has not been proven that disc braking systems are more expensive, an aerodynamic drag, and weigh more....okie dokie....

Cheers

KevinM
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by KevinM

Calnago wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:03 pm
If you can easily find arguments weighted toward both sides, why did you assume that discs are better in ALL situations? No need to answer, just sayin’.
Because arguments are arguments. Not facts. My argument is that if rims were better, they would be on other things and companies like Spesh would not be going all in on disc. The “anti disc” people are passionate for sure. People don’t like change. They are generally slow to adapt. But...when every pro starts winning on discs, rims will disappear quickly. That’s another “fact” (meaning “my opinion”).

KevinM
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by KevinM

blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:06 pm
KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:00 pm
blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:51 pm
KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In point of fact they do not perform better in about 99% of bike time
Cheers
Please do share the scientific data behind this fact. Not trying to be rude, but I think we’re dealing with opinion here, not fact. I can easily find articles online that agree with both arguments.
So your contention is it has not been proven that disc braking systems are more expensive, an aerodynamic drag, and weigh more....okie dokie....

Cheers
No, my contention is that it has not been proven that rims outperform discs 99% of the time.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:07 pm
blutto wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4
Cheers
I know it's kindergarten science, but I for one thought if not on a wet, technical descent, then where else could discs outperform rim brakes? :roll:
Well, that doesn't even qualify as a kindergaten science experiment. Tough to get meaningful data where n=1.

Now here is the real question: assuming that a disc equipped bike got you down the mountain faster, will the advantage be enough to overcome the slower trip up the other side due to the extra weight? :)
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

TiCass
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by TiCass

KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In braking situation, possibly. In all other situations, weight / noise / rubbing / maintenance / price, it's worse.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

What if all of us got 2 bikes (disc and rim in this case), what do you actually expect you'd use the most?
For the ease of it, they would be the same except for the brake option and shifters (ofcourse)..
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Mep
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by Mep

KevinM wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:03 pm
If you can easily find arguments weighted toward both sides, why did you assume that discs are better in ALL situations? No need to answer, just sayin’.
Because arguments are arguments. Not facts. My argument is that if rims were better, they would be on other things and companies like Spesh would not be going all in on disc. The “anti disc” people are passionate for sure. People don’t like change. They are generally slow to adapt. But...when every pro starts winning on discs, rims will disappear quickly. That’s another “fact” (meaning “my opinion”).
Manufacturers go in a certain direction to make sales, not because they are better performance wise. Pro cyclists go with components that are simply better performance wise. That is the fundamental behavior complicated by lots of other BS like marketing spin and sponsorship requirements etc. Your job as an informed consumer is to see through the BS and identify what suits you best.

In countries like the US, disc brakes have been readily lapped up. Automotive-level brakes on a bicycle with greater power and modulation... what's not to like. In other regions the sentiment has been less clear. It's really then no surprise why Specialized is making a big play on disc brakes. But make no mistake, it's not necessarily because they are "better".

KevinM
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:37 am

by KevinM

TiCass wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:34 pm
KevinM wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:26 pm
I would assume discs outperform rims in ALL situations. The question is not if they’re better, but if the benefit is worth the cost, right?
In braking situation, possibly. In all other situations, weight / noise / rubbing / maintenance / price, it's worse.
Agreed. I probably should have said “ALL braking situations” but didn’t because I was replying to a question that implied we were talking about braking.
Last edited by KevinM on Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

^still not right. But oh well.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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