New aero frame or 60mm aero wheels and aero bars?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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hlvd
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:54 pm

by hlvd

Hi, I’ve a Trek Emonda running 40mm carbon wheels conventional bars, but hankering over buying a Madone frameset.

If I kept the Emonda and got 60mm wheels and aero bar instead of the Madone with existing 40mm wheels how much of a difference would I see?

I’m a big tall guy so at my skinniest I could only realistically reach 95kg, currently 102kg, so lightweight stuff doesn’t really come into things but aero might as long as I work on my fitness and position on the bike.

I’d be interested in hearing people’s views on this, cheers.

izza
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:03 pm

by izza

The 60mm wheels are noticeably heavier up hills. 40mm are great allrounders.

What type of riding are you doing?


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by Weenie


hlvd
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:54 pm

by hlvd

izza wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:52 pm
The 60mm wheels are noticeably heavier up hills. 40mm are great allrounders.

What type of riding are you doing?


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No mountains, just rolling terrain.

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VTR1000SP2
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

I think you’d still hanker over a Madone after spending money on deeper wheels and an aero bar.


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morganb
Posts: 667
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

Emonda is one of the least aero bikes on the market. I think going for an aero set up on it is the wrong direction.

diegogarcia
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

OK I pondered the same question a few weeks back and the thread is here.

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 3&t=153527

I spent a big portion of the year on my R5 and was doing some point to point riding to great success ( in my head ) so thought exactly as you are so bought an S5. Here are the facts.

At normal speeds 16-21 they are similar bikes.

At 21+ aero takes effect and the bike lites up but this may simply just feel faster though the R5 was also fast it rolls better on rough UK roads.

On my 1/2 dozen or so local 800 / 1000 feet climbs - short but steep the R5 is on average 1 minute faster which makes sense. The S5 prefers stood up climbing. R5 seated. Again using feel the S5 feels nowhere near as capable but it gets there plodding up.

On my favourite blast at the moment the R5 is 2 minutes faster but the first attempt with the S5 was wet and windy. Though I rode at similar speeds I used 31 watts less on the aero bike.

But the S5 is other worldly stiff and harsh even with 80 psi on 25mm tyres.

In conclusion, I have concluded that most of it is marketing crap and in real world terms for real world riders the minutes gained or lost shakedown on any given ride to even out and bring home remarkably similar times and speeds.

If you love the Emonda, keep it, but get aero bars and deep wheels to make you feel alive on the fast days.

Hope that helps.

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 773
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Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

Buy the 60mm wheels now and use them on the Emonda while saving for a Madone frameset. I'd skip the aero bar as it wont be compatible with your future Madone.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

hlvd
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:54 pm

by hlvd

Thanks guys for all your input, it’s been very interesting.

Yes, I’d still hanker for the Madone but it’s just way too expensive and I don’t really want the 500oclv version..

As for the bars, I noticed that the Bontrager xxx bars are now di2 bar end junction compatible, so would serve two purposes.

Stueys
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

diegogarcia wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:50 pm

On my 1/2 dozen or so local 800 / 1000 feet climbs - short but steep the R5 is on average 1 minute faster which makes sense. The S5 prefers stood up climbing. R5 seated. Again using feel the S5 feels nowhere near as capable but it gets there plodding up.

On my favourite blast at the moment the R5 is 2 minutes faster but the first attempt with the S5 was wet and windy. Though I rode at similar speeds I used 31 watts less on the aero bike.
Interesting, the R5 is semi-aero but something else is going on other than the frame if you’re losing that much time on climbs. Roughly 1kg of weight lost saves you 24 seconds (at 400 watts) on the alpe, you’re talking a big difference on a relatively short climb. Different position, wheels, costing you more?

diegogarcia
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

Stueys wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:32 pm
diegogarcia wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:50 pm

On my 1/2 dozen or so local 800 / 1000 feet climbs - short but steep the R5 is on average 1 minute faster which makes sense. The S5 prefers stood up climbing. R5 seated. Again using feel the S5 feels nowhere near as capable but it gets there plodding up.

On my favourite blast at the moment the R5 is 2 minutes faster but the first attempt with the S5 was wet and windy. Though I rode at similar speeds I used 31 watts less on the aero bike.
Interesting, the R5 is semi-aero but something else is going on other than the frame if you’re losing that much time on climbs. Roughly 1kg of weight lost saves you 24 seconds (at 400 watts) on the alpe, you’re talking a big difference on a relatively short climb. Different position, wheels, costing you more?
No. Had this discussion last week. What is clever about the modern bike is some bike engender a state of mind. A TCR makes me feel like a much better, more capable climber and I seek the climbs. The R5 climbs as well, but certain bikes simply do certain things better. Speed, perception of speed have an impact and as with all the reviews, aero bikes simply do not climb as well for what ever reason.

GothicCastle
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:52 am

by GothicCastle

hlvd wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:45 pm
.If I kept the Emonda and got 60mm wheels and aero bar instead of the Madone with existing 40mm wheels how much of a difference would I see?.
You’d find it harder to ride in crosswinds.

dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

How about getting a cheaper aero bike? I love having a dedicated climbing bike for all the hills around here (SS Evo) and a cheaper aero bike with clip ons (Merida Reacto) for flat, rolling and winter riding.

Not to mention 60mm wheels will look very odd on an Emonda.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

diegogarcia, perhaps the R5s stiffer frame had something to do with your conclusion?

It seems bikes that are deemed none aero, use a DT that is (sometimes) box shaped. Flattest part facing front wheel.
In an old aero test they tested wheel and fork combinations. The fun thing was different front wheels and fork combinations proved better than others.
So, for a more or less standard road bike, would an aero shaped DT and fork in conjunction with wheels make the standard bike much more close to the aero bikes?
To me it seems the DT (and fork) should have the most impact talking aero gains..

Also wonder how we as cyclist are affected by the wind reflected from the ground?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

izza
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:03 pm

by izza

I used to be around 100kg. I’m now closer to 85kg.

At this size I’m always going to struggle up hill compared to peer cycling group. So go Aero and Id expect you to love chunky/stiff BB area when you’re out of the saddle.

If you get into mountain rides then the lightness of the Emonda will feel so much better.

So I’m not in favour of aero wheels on an Emonda frame. Keep the intent of each bike clear. My Madone I use for most rides is nearly 8kg and is fitted with every gizmo. I blast around seeing watts, tyre pressure, heart rate, gear combo on my Garmin. Love it. Even use it on Hill repeats as I can monitor all the figures.

When I get to Alpine trips I jump onto my 6.3kg Emonda and just keep my heart rate in the right zone. I get a buzz from the light feel.

In addition to how I want things, there is also the fact that big manufacturers pay peanuts for the same components you can buy. So save your funds and try to utilise that when buying a whole new bike later with aero wheels included.




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by Weenie


hlvd
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:54 pm

by hlvd

Thanks for everyone’s replies, I’ve decided to wait till I buy expensive wheels or frame, I’ll have to think hard about investing more money in rim brake equipment or get on board with discs.
Saying that, I’ve always been plenty happy with rim brakes.

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