Racing on tubeless, train on tubes, am I crazy?
Moderator: robbosmans
Hi wws...
I'm trying to develop a strategy for the aero bike (got climb, tt and aero).
To reduce RR I was thinking of running the wheels tubeless for racing or touring. For training however maybe those tires would be more or less wasted. (pretty expensive)
I can get like five pairs of training tires for the cost of a pair of schwalbe pro one's or corsa speed.
The issue is switching back and forth between tubeless+sealant and tubes. Would it work? Can I just suck up the pool of sealant in a bottle and reuse what hasn't been used? Wipe the tire inside and put those on the shelf?
Even if I dedicate the wheelset to be racing only there'd be sealant inside so the wheels need to be used to not have it dry out in a particular spot. Also I still would like the option to put a corsa speed in front instead of a pro one if the course road conditions are good. For longer rides/tours I would rather have a pro one there.
Also I don't race often. Like three times a year maybe. What would you do?
I'm trying to develop a strategy for the aero bike (got climb, tt and aero).
To reduce RR I was thinking of running the wheels tubeless for racing or touring. For training however maybe those tires would be more or less wasted. (pretty expensive)
I can get like five pairs of training tires for the cost of a pair of schwalbe pro one's or corsa speed.
The issue is switching back and forth between tubeless+sealant and tubes. Would it work? Can I just suck up the pool of sealant in a bottle and reuse what hasn't been used? Wipe the tire inside and put those on the shelf?
Even if I dedicate the wheelset to be racing only there'd be sealant inside so the wheels need to be used to not have it dry out in a particular spot. Also I still would like the option to put a corsa speed in front instead of a pro one if the course road conditions are good. For longer rides/tours I would rather have a pro one there.
Also I don't race often. Like three times a year maybe. What would you do?
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If you are in a position to be this picky about race tires, then you should have a set of training wheels to go along with your race wheels. If you don't have a set of training wheels, go out and buy some. Also I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions. This is probably because Corsa Speeds measure about 26mm on my wheels whereas 25mm Pro Ones and Fusion Galactiks are closer to 29mm. Unless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much and you are probably better off with wider tires at lower pressures so you can confidently take the inside lines around corners to gain a few spots with little effort.
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You don't change tubeless tires unless they are worn or damaged, too much fuss.
Your position in the pack won't dedicate your rolling resistance, only the speed, tyre compound, tyre pressure, tyre contact patch and road surface (plus other small factors I probably forgot)TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 amUnless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much
The tests I've seen show that rolling resistance is lowest with a latex tube. The only reason I can think to ride tubeless in a race is to prevent a flat during the race and allow you to continue without stopping.
I don't see any problem with doing that. It will be such a monumental pain in the ass that you'll probably give up on this idea after doing it once. I'd get the set of training wheels previously mentioned if you don't want to train on $50 tires that don't last very long.The issue is switching back and forth between tubeless+sealant and tubes. Would it work? Can I just suck up the pool of sealant in a bottle and reuse what hasn't been used? Wipe the tire inside and put those on the shelf?
I usually want extra wheels for different wind or climbing conditions. But let's say you had an alloy shallow rim for training with good training tires then you'd need another carbon set for racing say 38mm-50mm those could be tubeless.
The problem is there is a learning curve to tubeless. What sealant, tape, worms and tires work well how to use them in your local conditions really means that you're best off selecting just tubes and race and training tires or going tubeless for both. However for a high mileage rider tubeless tires can just be too expensive or just not logical in some regions.
The problem is there is a learning curve to tubeless. What sealant, tape, worms and tires work well how to use them in your local conditions really means that you're best off selecting just tubes and race and training tires or going tubeless for both. However for a high mileage rider tubeless tires can just be too expensive or just not logical in some regions.
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Your actualized wattage/efficiency won’t really matter either as you will likely be riding tempo or even endurance. Anyway we are talking like 3w difference between a pair of Pro Ones and GP4K SIIs...that is not going to make or break a race.JScycle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:08 pmYour position in the pack won't dedicate your rolling resistance, only the speed, tyre compound, tyre pressure, tyre contact patch and road surface (plus other small factors I probably forgot)TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 amUnless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much
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Corsa speeds are for time trails. For road racing use a Hutchinson, Mavic, pirelli or IRC tyre. You'll finish the race which is quite important.
Yes get a cheap pair of training wheels. I'd still use a tubeless tyre on them but onesuited to mileage.
Yes get a cheap pair of training wheels. I'd still use a tubeless tyre on them but onesuited to mileage.
How do you like Hutchinson Fusion against Pro One?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 amAlso I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions.
Which version did you try? 11storm performance?
Although you're asking Tobin -- and his opinion may differ from mine -- I've tried them all as well so here's my opinion.Hexsense wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:20 pmHow do you like Hutchinson Fusion against Pro One?TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 amAlso I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions.
Which version did you try? 11storm performance?
Pro Ones:
- Wet performance is absymal
- They have never sealed well for me, small punctures have often required a dynaplug
- I get about 1800mi out of a rear
Fusion 5 11Storm Galactik:
- Very grippy
- Seals ok, but not great
- I get about 1000 mi out of a rear
Fusion 5 11Storm Performance
- Very grippy
- Seals well
- I get about 1800 mi out of the rear
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I train on tubes and race on tubless Pro ones.
My training set is a set of Boyd Altamonts with whatever sort of tire I choose to run. Big and cushy or super tough. Tubes allow me to swap in and out more often and easier. My race set is a 50mm carbon set with the Pro Ones that I use on race rides or race weekends. Use Orange Seal (it won't dry out) and tape correctly. Tubeless really isn't that difficult. I wouldn't give up tubeless for racing ever. It has saved me multiple races while sealing without me knowing.
My training set is a set of Boyd Altamonts with whatever sort of tire I choose to run. Big and cushy or super tough. Tubes allow me to swap in and out more often and easier. My race set is a 50mm carbon set with the Pro Ones that I use on race rides or race weekends. Use Orange Seal (it won't dry out) and tape correctly. Tubeless really isn't that difficult. I wouldn't give up tubeless for racing ever. It has saved me multiple races while sealing without me knowing.
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bike24 is still much cheaper despite the "48% discount"