Racing on tubeless, train on tubes, am I crazy?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
alcatraz
Posts: 1298
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Hi wws...

I'm trying to develop a strategy for the aero bike (got climb, tt and aero).

To reduce RR I was thinking of running the wheels tubeless for racing or touring. For training however maybe those tires would be more or less wasted. (pretty expensive)

I can get like five pairs of training tires for the cost of a pair of schwalbe pro one's or corsa speed.

The issue is switching back and forth between tubeless+sealant and tubes. Would it work? Can I just suck up the pool of sealant in a bottle and reuse what hasn't been used? Wipe the tire inside and put those on the shelf?

Even if I dedicate the wheelset to be racing only there'd be sealant inside so the wheels need to be used to not have it dry out in a particular spot. Also I still would like the option to put a corsa speed in front instead of a pro one if the course road conditions are good. For longer rides/tours I would rather have a pro one there.

Also I don't race often. Like three times a year maybe. What would you do?

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1887
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If you are in a position to be this picky about race tires, then you should have a set of training wheels to go along with your race wheels. If you don't have a set of training wheels, go out and buy some. Also I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions. This is probably because Corsa Speeds measure about 26mm on my wheels whereas 25mm Pro Ones and Fusion Galactiks are closer to 29mm. Unless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much and you are probably better off with wider tires at lower pressures so you can confidently take the inside lines around corners to gain a few spots with little effort.

Marin
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

You don't change tubeless tires unless they are worn or damaged, too much fuss.

JScycle
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 pm

by JScycle

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 am
Unless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much
Your position in the pack won't dedicate your rolling resistance, only the speed, tyre compound, tyre pressure, tyre contact patch and road surface (plus other small factors I probably forgot)

AJS914
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

The tests I've seen show that rolling resistance is lowest with a latex tube. The only reason I can think to ride tubeless in a race is to prevent a flat during the race and allow you to continue without stopping.
The issue is switching back and forth between tubeless+sealant and tubes. Would it work? Can I just suck up the pool of sealant in a bottle and reuse what hasn't been used? Wipe the tire inside and put those on the shelf?
I don't see any problem with doing that. It will be such a monumental pain in the ass that you'll probably give up on this idea after doing it once. I'd get the set of training wheels previously mentioned if you don't want to train on $50 tires that don't last very long.

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Lewn777
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

I usually want extra wheels for different wind or climbing conditions. But let's say you had an alloy shallow rim for training with good training tires then you'd need another carbon set for racing say 38mm-50mm those could be tubeless.

The problem is there is a learning curve to tubeless. What sealant, tape, worms and tires work well how to use them in your local conditions really means that you're best off selecting just tubes and race and training tires or going tubeless for both. However for a high mileage rider tubeless tires can just be too expensive or just not logical in some regions.

alcatraz
Posts: 1298
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'm so afraid of racing on corsa speeds with tubes in them. :D

And it's a nice wheelset that would be a shame to use only three times a year.

Tricky situation....

I liked the idea of being able to swap tubeless tires. Touring vs racing.

/a

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Orlok
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:36 pm
Location: Almere - Nederland

by Orlok

Yes do crazy, make the move and drive tubeless.! :welcome:
Once comes a time that you'll have a tailwind :D
Pinarello F10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 - Tubeless

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1887
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

JScycle wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:08 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 am
Unless you're in a break, the rolling resistance difference really won't matter that much
Your position in the pack won't dedicate your rolling resistance, only the speed, tyre compound, tyre pressure, tyre contact patch and road surface (plus other small factors I probably forgot)
Your actualized wattage/efficiency won’t really matter either as you will likely be riding tempo or even endurance. Anyway we are talking like 3w difference between a pair of Pro Ones and GP4K SIIs...that is not going to make or break a race.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Corsa speeds are for time trails. For road racing use a Hutchinson, Mavic, pirelli or IRC tyre. You'll finish the race which is quite important.

Yes get a cheap pair of training wheels. I'd still use a tubeless tyre on them but onesuited to mileage.

Hexsense
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 am
Also I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions.
How do you like Hutchinson Fusion against Pro One?
Which version did you try? 11storm performance?

dvq
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:20 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 am
Also I do not trust the Corsa Speeds in corners as much as I trust Pro Ones or Hutchinson Fusions.
How do you like Hutchinson Fusion against Pro One?
Which version did you try? 11storm performance?
Although you're asking Tobin -- and his opinion may differ from mine -- I've tried them all as well so here's my opinion.

Pro Ones:
- Wet performance is absymal
- They have never sealed well for me, small punctures have often required a dynaplug
- I get about 1800mi out of a rear

Fusion 5 11Storm Galactik:
- Very grippy
- Seals ok, but not great
- I get about 1000 mi out of a rear

Fusion 5 11Storm Performance
- Very grippy
- Seals well
- I get about 1800 mi out of the rear

g00se
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:22 pm

by g00se

If you are after the Schwalbes, Chainreaction have them half price at the moment (that Black Friday malarky)

Ltyarbro42
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:05 pm

by Ltyarbro42

I train on tubes and race on tubless Pro ones.

My training set is a set of Boyd Altamonts with whatever sort of tire I choose to run. Big and cushy or super tough. Tubes allow me to swap in and out more often and easier. My race set is a 50mm carbon set with the Pro Ones that I use on race rides or race weekends. Use Orange Seal (it won't dry out) and tape correctly. Tubeless really isn't that difficult. I wouldn't give up tubeless for racing ever. It has saved me multiple races while sealing without me knowing.

by Weenie


Marin
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

g00se wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:38 am
If you are after the Schwalbes, Chainreaction have them half price at the moment (that Black Friday malarky)
bike24 is still much cheaper despite the "48% discount"

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