Odds that we see disc brake only bikes go back to having rim offerings?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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mattr
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by mattr

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:27 pm
This begs the question, if everything is as good as it is ever going to get, why do you care if rim brake development stops? Be happy with what you already own (no reason to ever upgrade, right?)
20+ year old steel frame, it's going to go pop eventually. So i'd like to get another, new frame (sooner rather than later).
joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:27 pm
and maybe buy some spares now to have on hand should rim brake parts evaporate overnight. Think of all the money you’ll save down the road not being forced by the industry to buy the latest and greatest.
Already done. Have a handful of part groupsets lying around. Probably enough to last another 10 years, give or take.
Issue (for me) is some of the bits I'd like to try (Di2 for instance) will be affected when Shimano stop offering (for instance) Di2 with mechanical brakes.
I'd be extremely surprised if it's not already being discussed internally at HQ.

by Weenie


Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

mattr wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:43 pm
Issue (for me) is some of the bits I'd like to try (Di2 for instance) will be affected when Shimano stop offering (for instance) Di2 with mechanical brakes.
I'd be extremely surprised if it's not already being discussed internally at HQ.
Do you think it's going to happen for the generation being developed now? I don't. If it's not, that means that you'll have until at least 2024 before there's a new gen of DI2 wthout rim brake shifters (2025 for Ultegra), and at least a couple of years after that until the previous generation shifters are no longer available. Suddenly we're projecting a problem that might occur in around a decade from now. If you really want to try DI2, 10 years is probably enough time to make it happen!

joejack951
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by joejack951

mattr wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:43 pm
Issue (for me) is some of the bits I'd like to try (Di2 for instance) will be affected when Shimano stop offering (for instance) Di2 with mechanical brakes.
Oh, the irony that someone so passionate about the marketing BS of disc brakes is worried that Di2 components might become hard to source.

Are you also worried that frames will no longer provide mounting options for mechanical groupsets at all forcing everyone into a never ending pattern of upgrading a full bike to be able to use the latest new standard of electronic groupset?

joejack951
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by joejack951

Spinnekop wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:10 pm
Not really my issue with the whole thing. I am fortunate enough to be able to buy a new bike should industry force me to.
Its not about the money saving.
It is about the marketing BS
No one will ever force you to buy a new bike. You may choose to buy something else for a variety of reasons, though. If the cycling market is anything like it's been for the past few decades that I've been around it, you'll have plenty of choices, starting from ~$50 for a complete bike.

If you don't like the continuous stream of marketing that is the nature of every single consumer product in existence, I suggest learning how to ignore it.

ParisCarbon
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Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

I look back at the Tour de France and look at when given the option, how many were still using rim brake.. all the high mtn stages were still won on rim brake models...

Someone had mentioned on a previous page about bike shops having soley disc now , the shop I race for is one of the biggest in Western Canada and the past 2 years stocked and sold more rim models... the disc models that sell are all CX options primarily because thats the only thing available now it seems.. and CX here is huge here...
Ironically alot of people last year were complaining they couldnt race their db bikes on road (the whole UCI ruling) funny all those people who whined never showed up at a race this year... no one in the local cat 2/3 pack was on db this year at all, and at Provincial road champ, we had one guy on DB out of probably 30 guys.. next year I might be the only 2/3 on db with my venge...

MoPho
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by MoPho

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:08 pm


Oh, the irony that someone so passionate about the marketing BS of disc brakes is worried that Di2 components might become hard to source.

It's only marketing BS until it's something they want, then it's the truth, especially if a pro uses it.

If you don't like the continuous stream of marketing that is the nature of every single consumer product in existence, I suggest learning how to ignore it.

Yup, don't buy a new phone, computer, car, TV, stereo, dishwasher, etc., etc., they are all in on the marketing conspiracy

.

C36
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by C36

Edit: may have misunderstood a previous message

spinwax
Shop Owner
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by spinwax

I just got a brand new 2019 non aero, rim brake, mechanical, very traditional looking Supersix Evo. If it was steel I would have checked every box of the industry nonconformist.

There are still many like myself out there and most of my friends and riding buddies still prefer rim and mechanical.

I really dont see that many disc bikes. If I do, it's a Giant with a positive flipped stem, a dork disc and piloted by a guy in full neon and a gut. Not a bad thing as they are out there enjoying the sport and riding which is the most important but in general it's what I see. The huge ads and manufacture purchased reviews in his Outdoor and Bicycling Magazine subcriptions definitley gave some him buying insight :wink:

Will I get a disc bike in the future? Well I already own three but none are full road race bikes (Commuter, gravel, etc). I will get a full race bike in disc when that's all there is offered. I live in a mountainous area that doesn't see a lot of rain. I have never really had any need for disc and I prefer the looks of a rim bike any day.

joejack951
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by joejack951

spinwax wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:43 pm
I just got a brand new 2019 non aero, rim brake, mechanical, very traditional looking Supersix Evo. If it was steel I would have checked every box of the industry nonconformist.
You bought a brand new off-the-shelf bike rather than something pieced together from various sources. You are an industry conformist whether you like it or not :)

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Miller
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by Miller

I was pedalling home on Saturday morning on my CX bike (discs) when I got overtaken by a group of about 12 from some local club. Obviously I sat on the back for a bit. Right in front of me was a nice Enigma titanium bike with probably Ultegra discs, beside it was maybe a Giant Propel with discs.

Here (Southern England) disc-brake bikes are suddenly everywhere. Seems to me like new bike sales are swinging heavily towards disc.

spinwax
Shop Owner
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by spinwax

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:59 pm
spinwax wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:43 pm
I just got a brand new 2019 non aero, rim brake, mechanical, very traditional looking Supersix Evo. If it was steel I would have checked every box of the industry nonconformist.
You bought a brand new off-the-shelf bike rather than something pieced together from various sources. You are an industry conformist whether you like it or not :)
For the price I get a full built bike (EP or better) it doesn't make financial sense to try and build it up from the frame. Changing parts out and selling off what I don't use puts me in the black on all my purchases.

mattr
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by mattr

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:01 pm
mattr wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:43 pm
I'd be extremely surprised if it's not already being discussed internally at HQ.
Do you think it's going to happen for the generation being developed now? I don't.
Unless you actually work for shimano, or one of it's main customers, you don't know what's in the next product cycle. The odds are good that it'll continue for another generation though.
joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:08 pm
Oh, the irony that someone so passionate about the marketing BS of disc brakes
You've got me confused with someone else. I'm not at all passionate about the marketing, just slightly aware of my increasingly (decreasingly?) limited options.
joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:08 pm
Are you also worried that frames will no longer provide mounting options for mechanical groupsets at all forcing everyone into a never ending pattern of upgrading a full bike to be able to use the latest new standard of electronic groupset?
No.

Karvalo
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

mattr wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:29 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:01 pm
mattr wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:43 pm
I'd be extremely surprised if it's not already being discussed internally at HQ.
Do you think it's going to happen for the generation being developed now? I don't.
Unless you actually work for shimano, or one of it's main customers, you don't know what's in the next product cycle. The odds are good that it'll continue for another generation though.
That's why I used the word 'think' and phrased it as a question. Good to know you agree with me :wink:

youngs_modulus
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Location: Portland, OR USA

by youngs_modulus

AW84 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:45 am
youngs_modulus wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:52 pm

There’s no cabal of executives rubbing their hands together at the prospect of taking money from naive enthusiasts by fabricating “improvements” that aren’t improvements.
That's exactly what the industry is doing.
No, it's really not. You're being paranoid. The bike industry isn't run by Monty Burns.
AW84 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:45 am
Frames are about as light as they can be without becoming dangerously brittle. Groupset component weights have either stalemated or in some cases actually gone up. Wheels, stems, handlebars, cranksets, they're all virtually as refined as they can be. The industry has painted itself in a corner and it has to BS us to continue selling things...
Sure, bikes are pretty great these days. But "bikes are pretty great these days" has been a valid observation for decades. Bikes were pretty great in the 1970s, too. Silk sew-ups and frames made from silver-brazed Reynolds 753! But then the '80s brought indexed shifting, clipless pedals and cassette ramps that allow shifting under full power. The 1990s gave us carbon forks, the aheadset and deep-section wheels. The 2000s brought sub-kilo carbon frames and power meters; mountain bikes got tubeless tires and rear suspension so good it became the default even for XC racing.

So I'm not buying your argument that no substantial improvement is possible. I don't even know where you get that idea.
AW84 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:45 am
[The industry] knows a middle-aged dentist will spend anything if it can convince him that new technology will make him ride like a pro, when reality later proves otherwise.
You might want to find a new, less credulous dentist. Have you ever met a rider (regardless of career choice) who believed that upgrading their bike would result in pro-level speed? I haven't. "Dentist bikes" are totally a thing, but I've never encountered an out-of-shape-but-wealthy rider who believed that equipment was a substitute for fitness. Why do you object to the idea of people spending lots of money on bikes, regardless of how fast they are? I like to think that these consumers subsidize R&D for the rest of us.
AW84 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:45 am
The industry is unlikely to do an about-face and convince us that rim brakes and 9-speed drivetrains are the way of the future
And this what sparked my initial reply: the assertion that the industry would generate fake information to "force" the market to revert to an earlier standard. I asked for specifics, but never got any. You just agreed that isn't likely to happen, so I guess I've made my point.
AW84 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:45 am
but it will certainly sell you on the significant benefits of things and all of the testing it's done to prove it that will never amount to a hill of beans in the real world.

This is very important: the vast majority of bike industry marketing types believe what they say. Many of them don't have any real background in science, so they often say things they believe to be true while the engineer in the next cube does a facepalm. Yes, it's up to marketers to get people to buy stuff, and they often get overenthusiastic about doing their jobs.

In a previous life, I was a reporter for the main US bike-industry trade paper. I talked to plenty of bike-industry marketers and heard some very silly claims. But maybe 90% of the time I was told something I knew to be false, the marketer believed what he or she was saying. I'll invoke Hanlon's razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

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Spinnekop
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by Spinnekop

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:12 pm
No one will ever force you to buy a new bike.
Nowhere did I say I am forced.
What are you getting at? I don't understand your ramblings?
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

by Weenie


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