Odds that we see disc brake only bikes go back to having rim offerings?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
welchy
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

I blame Trump, and then Corbyn, then Farage. They told us Discs were the way forward.

by Weenie


AW84
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Likening rim brake fans to flat-earthers or labeling us old codgers who just can't get with the times is a bit off the mark.

Disc brakes are not some slam-dunk technology advancement on a road bike. This isn't indexed shifting, or discs on mountain bikes, or electronic fuel injection, or cell phones over a pager, or cars over buggies, that literally benefit everyone. I'd put this in the same boat as Apple eliminating the headphone jack from an iPhone....it's a move designed for their own selfish proprietary manufacturing purposes, that has been proven by their main competitor to still be perfectly usable in the year 2019, and that ultimately introduces some inconveniences.

Discs are a technology that benefit some people and some purposes, but everyone? Not hardly. I don't think anyone wants to see a reversal and discs wiped off the map, but we'd like some choice, and the knowledge that our bikes will be supported down the road. Fortunately, that there are millions upon millions of rim brake bikes out there leads me to believe (or hope) that rim brake parts won't be going away anytime soon.

tarmackev
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

Interesting take on it from a Phil Gaimon. As a guy who owns two non disc bikes and a disc brake bike I have to agree. https://youtu.be/ZQw53__06I0


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MoPho
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal/SoCal

by MoPho

AW84 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 pm
Likening rim brake fans to flat-earthers or labeling us old codgers who just can't get with the times is a bit off the mark.

You mean as opposed to likening disc brake users as "Sheep" , "suckers for the marketing", "Freds", "timid riders", 'Noobs", morons, insecure, etc.?



.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MoPho wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:29 pm
AW84 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 pm
Likening rim brake fans to flat-earthers or labeling us old codgers who just can't get with the times is a bit off the mark.

You mean as opposed to likening disc brake users as "Sheep" , "suckers for the marketing", "Freds", "timid riders", 'Noobs", morons, insecure, etc.?

Isn’t it funny how they’ve been deploying tactics consistent with those climate change deniers and flat-earthers? It’s just textbook for those who fear change and feel their current position is threatened.

1) When in doubt, whip up a frenzy.
2) Claim the other side has an “agenda.”
3) Stretch the truth.
4) Just outright lie and hope nobody notices.
5) Engage in pointless whataboutism such as mentioning what pros use.
6) Pretend you see "both sides."
7) Contract measles.

Maybe not you AW84, but where do you think Lewn777 stands?

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

This is soon as heated as religion! It would be superbly fun to meet all of you guys for real, then have a bunch of bikes with both disc and rim brakes.
Ride back and forth for days and have a beer or far too many in the evening. I'd be eager to hear those debates.... :mrgreen:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 pm
If hydraulic disk brakes on road bikes are so good and so needed...
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
-Why do manufacturers spend so much money marketing them?
-Why have manufacturers had to force them on their pro riders and on the public through their dealerships?
-Why were last years winners of the Grand Tours all on rim brakes?
-Why will this years winners of the Grand Tours probably all be on rim brakes?
-Why doesn't the wealthiest pro cycle team demand disk brakes from its bike sponsor?
-Why have pro riders not wanted them for over five years and actually fought their introduction as best they could?
-Why do loads of adpoters go back to rim brakes again or regret their choice later?
-Why are some disk brake adopters so insecure and sensitive about their choice of brake? Tell me about how good your brakes are, not how rubbish mine are.
-Why do some manufacturers deliberately phase out rim brake bike models whilst manufacturing a different new kind of bike for every concievable road surface?
-Why do they so often rub, robbing the rider of valuable watts?
-Why the sudden lack of clamour to lower the UCI bike weight limit?
-If hydrualic disk brakes have existed for bicycles for well over 10 years are they suddenly now oh so popular and being used on road bikes?
-Why is there such little evidence of them being better other than psychological self delusion other than in the wet?
-Why do they seem like a mountain bike brake slapped on a road bike rather than something designed specifically for road bikes?
-Why don't the manufacturers at least standardize spacing, axle sizes and disk sizes so users can easily switch wheels on their bike and so pros can change wheels in a race?
-Why do I need the extra power if I can leave black lines with rim brakes on 23-28mm tires?
-Why not give direct mount brakes time and investment to improve in terms of design, rim surface and pad instead?
-Why make such an issue of carbon rim's delamination/wear, when you can get perfectly nice wheels with alloy brake tracks or coated alloy for a reasonable weight?
-Why wouldn't you just put a disk brake on the front wheel where it's 'superiority' is really needed and not pointlessly drag around the extra weight and complexity of a rear disk brake?
-Why do I need extra modulation if good calipers and rim combinations eg DT SWISS wheels, Camapagnolo wheels, Dura Ace calipers and EE couldn't concievably have more?
-Why is it really only highly profit driven American Corporations that seem to pushing for disk brakes so vehemently?
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Who’s the insecure one? Probably the one who just wrote a manifesto with a few lies thrown in.

For example, Trek, an American company released its top-tier rim-brake aero bike in 2019. Cervelo, a Canadian company, did not. BMC, a Swiss company, did not. Focus, a German company, did not. Giant, a Japanese company, did not.

OMG how can global warming be real if *holds snowball* this was outside in April? Yep, Lewn777 sounds just like a conspiracy theorist.
Another ad hominem attack by the 'disk brake insecure' proves I'm correct again. :D

If disk brakes are superior there's no need to do a thing. They'll win you can sit happily eating your popcorn as your chosen brake system takes over the world, by pure technological evolution. All the shouting and ad hominem attacks, supurious evidence, desperate ignorance of any rationally discussed downsides to disk brakes just makes it seem like something's wrong in paradise. Why then so you feel the need to go to all this effort and trouble to prove this? The guy who invented the wheel didn't need to attack people that used sleds, shut them up and preach to the world of the betterness of the wheel. It won the argument from the obvious practicality of being able to move things on hard ground, but we still kept the sleds for snow, sand and waterlogged ground. :noidea:
Last edited by Lewn777 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

robertbb
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm


For example, Trek, an American company released its top-tier rim-brake aero bike in 2019. Cervelo, a Canadian company, did not. BMC, a Swiss company, did not. Focus, a German company, did not. Giant, a Japanese company, did not.
Giant is Taiwanese.

AJS914
Posts: 3485
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

29 pages of this and the answer to the original question is still "NO".

fxx
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

by fxx

Lewn777 wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 pm
If hydraulic disk brakes on road bikes are so good and so needed...
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
-Why do manufacturers spend so much money marketing them?
-Why have manufacturers had to force them on their pro riders and on the public through their dealerships?
-Why were last years winners of the Grand Tours all on rim brakes?
-Why will this years winners of the Grand Tours probably all be on rim brakes?
-Why doesn't the wealthiest pro cycle team demand disk brakes from its bike sponsor?
-Why have pro riders not wanted them for over five years and actually fought their introduction as best they could?
-Why do loads of adpoters go back to rim brakes again or regret their choice later?
-Why are some disk brake adopters so insecure and sensitive about their choice of brake? Tell me about how good your brakes are, not how rubbish mine are.
-Why do some manufacturers deliberately phase out rim brake bike models whilst manufacturing a different new kind of bike for every concievable road surface?
-Why do they so often rub, robbing the rider of valuable watts?
-Why the sudden lack of clamour to lower the UCI bike weight limit?
-If hydrualic disk brakes have existed for bicycles for well over 10 years are they suddenly now oh so popular and being used on road bikes?
-Why is there such little evidence of them being better other than psychological self delusion other than in the wet?
-Why do they seem like a mountain bike brake slapped on a road bike rather than something designed specifically for road bikes?
-Why don't the manufacturers at least standardize spacing, axle sizes and disk sizes so users can easily switch wheels on their bike and so pros can change wheels in a race?
-Why do I need the extra power if I can leave black lines with rim brakes on 23-28mm tires?
-Why not give direct mount brakes time and investment to improve in terms of design, rim surface and pad instead?
-Why make such an issue of carbon rim's delamination/wear, when you can get perfectly nice wheels with alloy brake tracks or coated alloy for a reasonable weight?
-Why wouldn't you just put a disk brake on the front wheel where it's 'superiority' is really needed and not pointlessly drag around the extra weight and complexity of a rear disk brake?
-Why do I need extra modulation if good calipers and rim combinations eg DT SWISS wheels, Camapagnolo wheels, Dura Ace calipers and EE couldn't concievably have more?
-Why is it really only highly profit driven American Corporations that seem to pushing for disk brakes so vehemently?
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Who’s the insecure one? Probably the one who just wrote a manifesto with a few lies thrown in.

For example, Trek, an American company released its top-tier rim-brake aero bike in 2019. Cervelo, a Canadian company, did not. BMC, a Swiss company, did not. Focus, a German company, did not. Giant, a Japanese company, did not.

OMG how can global warming be real if *holds snowball* this was outside in April? Yep, Lewn777 sounds just like a conspiracy theorist.
Another ad hominem attack by the 'disk brake insecure' proves I'm correct again. :D

If disk brakes are superior there's no need to do a thing. They'll win you can sit happily eating your popcorn as your chosen brake system takes over the world, by pure technological evolution. All the shouting and ad hominem attacks, supurious evidence, desperate ignorance of any rationally discussed downsides to disk brakes just makes it seem like something's wrong in paradise. Why then so you feel the need to go to all this effort and trouble to prove this? The guy who invented the wheel didn't need to attack people that used sleds, shut them up and preach to the world of the betterness of the wheel. It won the argument from the obvious practicality of being able to move things on hard ground, but we still kept the sleds for snow, sand and waterlogged ground. :noidea:
Actually this debate should not be heated at all if the manufacturers do not strong arm and dictate our choices by forcing us to go disc because of intentional obsolescence by stopping manfucturing of rim brake bikes.

So why are you we fighting among ourselves? Both rim and disc brakes have their pros and cons and there is no clear right or wrong.

I own both and ride mainly rim.

Peace out!

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:53 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm


For example, Trek, an American company released its top-tier rim-brake aero bike in 2019. Cervelo, a Canadian company, did not. BMC, a Swiss company, did not. Focus, a German company, did not. Giant, a Japanese company, did not.
Giant is Taiwanese.

Sorry, I knew that, a brainpo on that one.

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:43 pm

Another ad hominem attack by the 'disk brake insecure' proves I'm correct again. :D

If disk brakes are superior there's no need to do a thing. They'll win you can sit happily eating your popcorn as your chosen brake system takes over the world, by pure technological evolution. All the shouting and ad hominem attacks, supurious evidence, desperate ignorance of any rationally discussed downsides to disk brakes just makes it seem like something's wrong in paradise. Why then so you feel the need to go to all this effort and trouble to prove this? The guy who invented the wheel didn't need to attack people that used sleds, shut them up and preach to the world of the betterness of the wheel. It won the argument from the obvious practicality of being able to move things on hard ground, but we still kept the sleds for snow, sand and waterlogged ground. :noidea:

Is it really an ad-hom to call out the extremist in the room? Quit. playing. the. victim.

Care to defend your remarks though? Why is the American company still making a rim-brake top-tier aero bike while the Swiss, German, Canadian, Taiwanese, etc. companies aren't? Care to explain why being able to skid on either rim or disc brakes is relevant to their merits? I can skid on coaster brakes too.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

fxx
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

by fxx

corky wrote:
ome rodriguez wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am
The true test is tour de france, biggest and most important bike race in the world.
What?........ please explain?....
It is true, as a marketing platform, it is the biggest influence on bike and accessories purchase of the masses.

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

fxx wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:13 am
corky wrote:
ome rodriguez wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am
The true test is tour de france, biggest and most important bike race in the world.
What?........ please explain?....
It is true, as a marketing platform, it is the biggest influence on bike and accessories purchase of the masses.

I can't really think of how rim-brake sentiment benefits from another round of heavy disc-brake promotion by the brands and media. I'd say there's a 90% likelihood the GC winner is on a rim-brake bike, but that detail won't make huge waves. The people who care deeply about that are a very small subset of the cycling market as has been proven in the last couple years. No marketing is needed to reinforce their views and no amount of marketing can change their views, so the focus again will be those who are on the fence / neutral. It's like politics. You don't need to appeal to your base...the fight is over the centrists / populists in the middle.

The biggest asset in the marketing machine to the community at large is the local bike shop, followed by the media, followed by ads / social media.

Also since the TdF takes place in July, it is actually not the greatest platform from which to launch new products. If you launch at the TdF, you've missed most all of the spring cycling season and half of summer.

killerrabbit
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:33 pm

by killerrabbit

Lewn ftw.

by Weenie


User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:26 am
fxx wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:13 am
corky wrote:
ome rodriguez wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am
The true test is tour de france, biggest and most important bike race in the world.
What?........ please explain?....
It is true, as a marketing platform, it is the biggest influence on bike and accessories purchase of the masses.

I can't really think of how rim-brake sentiment benefits from another round of heavy disc-brake promotion by the brands and media. I'd say there's a 90% likelihood the GC winner is on a rim-brake bike, but that detail won't make huge waves. The people who care deeply about that are a very small subset of the cycling market as has been proven in the last couple years. No marketing is needed to reinforce their views and no amount of marketing can change their views, so the focus again will be those who are on the fence / neutral. It's like politics. You don't need to appeal to your base...the fight is over the centrists / populists in the middle.

The biggest asset in the marketing machine to the community at large is the local bike shop, followed by the media, followed by ads / social media.

Also since the TdF takes place in July, it is actually not the greatest platform from which to launch new products. If you launch at the TdF, you've missed most all of the spring cycling season and half of summer.
If rim brake bike wins cycle race = Means nothing.
Disk brake bike wins race = Meaningful proof of superiority.

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