Odds that we see disc brake only bikes go back to having rim offerings?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The teams with heavily favored GC contenders are still using rim-brake bikes presumably because wheel changes are (for now) slightly easier. Of course half the time they just perform a bike change or a domestique sacrifices his own bike for the cause.

This doesn’t really apply to weekend warriors or even amateur racers. If you flat in a road race as an amateur, more than likely you will be permanently dropped and out of contention. What pros do is largely irrelevant unless you’re one of those people who wears Team Sk...Ineos kit from head to toe while puttering around at 100W.

by Weenie


ome rodriguez
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by ome rodriguez

I bet trek is dying to win a grand tour on their disc brake bikes.

welchy
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

fxx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:04 am
DJT21 wrote:
welchy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 pm
I mean, I don't know, but I was there watching it and it appeared 90% of the bikes ridden were rim brake..
They must've edited the live feed for TV, to make it appear as if the riders were using disc brakes. It's all part of the conspiracy.
I believe what welchy meant was that 90 percent of all riders were on rim, but 80 percent of the top 10 were on disc.

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Yup, thats what I was saying..haha

welchy
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

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And these guys too
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welchy
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

spdntrxi wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:45 am
fxx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:04 am
DJT21 wrote:
welchy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:40 pm
I mean, I don't know, but I was there watching it and it appeared 90% of the bikes ridden were rim brake..
They must've edited the live feed for TV, to make it appear as if the riders were using disc brakes. It's all part of the conspiracy.
I believe what welchy meant was that 90 percent of all riders were on rim, but 80 percent of the top 10 were on disc.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
I beleive what Duke meant to say is that is all those teams where on disc only.. welchy is blind :beerchug: cheers.. no hard feels :thumbup:
Yah, that be right - i'm a blind man, the earth is flat, climate change isn't real - these disc break bikes are fake news in my eyes :mrgreen:

Point i'm making is whatever you lot say, at Roubaix, this year - a considerably heavy portion, far higher than disc - were using Rim. You are welcome to say oo but are you blind, did you see the TV etc. I'm all for disc etc, just the absolute truth is what I witnessed..

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

If hydraulic disk brakes on road bikes are so good and so needed...
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
-Why do manufacturers spend so much money marketing them?
-Why have manufacturers had to force them on their pro riders and on the public through their dealerships?
-Why were last years winners of the Grand Tours all on rim brakes?
-Why will this years winners of the Grand Tours probably all be on rim brakes?
-Why doesn't the wealthiest pro cycle team demand disk brakes from its bike sponsor?
-Why have pro riders not wanted them for over five years and actually fought their introduction as best they could?
-Why do loads of adpoters go back to rim brakes again or regret their choice later?
-Why are some disk brake adopters so insecure and sensitive about their choice of brake? Tell me about how good your brakes are, not how rubbish mine are.
-Why do some manufacturers deliberately phase out rim brake bike models whilst manufacturing a different new kind of bike for every concievable road surface?
-Why do they so often rub, robbing the rider of valuable watts?
-Why the sudden lack of clamour to lower the UCI bike weight limit?
-If hydrualic disk brakes have existed for bicycles for well over 10 years are they suddenly now oh so popular and being used on road bikes?
-Why is there such little evidence of them being better other than psychological self delusion other than in the wet?
-Why do they seem like a mountain bike brake slapped on a road bike rather than something designed specifically for road bikes?
-Why don't the manufacturers at least standardize spacing, axle sizes and disk sizes so users can easily switch wheels on their bike and so pros can change wheels in a race?
-Why do I need the extra power if I can leave black lines with rim brakes on 23-28mm tires?
-Why not give direct mount brakes time and investment to improve in terms of design, rim surface and pad instead?
-Why make such an issue of carbon rim's delamination/wear, when you can get perfectly nice wheels with alloy brake tracks or coated alloy for a reasonable weight?
-Why wouldn't you just put a disk brake on the front wheel where it's 'superiority' is really needed and not pointlessly drag around the extra weight and complexity of a rear disk brake?
-Why do I need extra modulation if good calipers and rim combinations eg DT SWISS wheels, Camapagnolo wheels, Dura Ace calipers and EE couldn't concievably have more?
-Why is it really only highly profit driven American Corporations that seem to pushing for disk brakes so vehemently?
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

welchy
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

A - feckin - men Lewn777.

You've forgotten that the people who have bought their fancy new S-Works Disc models and don't want to admit that they may not have needed them over their rim brakes are the other side of the argument.

I like discs, amazing on my CX bike. Great for DH, fantastic in the wet. Everything else, rim brakes suit me fine.

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C36
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by C36

TobinHatesYou wrote:The teams with heavily favored GC contenders are still using rim-brake bikes presumably because wheel changes are (for now) slightly easier. Of course half the time they just perform a bike change or a domestique sacrifices his own bike for the cause.
I had the opportunity to mention it here several times and that’s not the main reason.
- Movistar had pressure from Canyon and top 3 riders refused discs making strong comments agains them (including a “let the other use them”) among reasons there is no disc brake frame as dynamic as their rim one brother (confirmed by Canyon engineers, and if it is relevant confirmed by few magasines and had the opportunity to do the back to back test of supersix, sl6, and recently a madone).
- sky evaluated them and considered them less performant in absolute.
- over a month ago in a bike test I rode with a Pro supplied by a brand in disc and I was riding the rim version (even surprised they offered it as test ride but that’s another story) and he confessed preferring how the rim frame behaved.

But as you mention we don’t have the same needs that the pro or even among the forum population. We all brake and we all care a minimum how dynamic a bike is, then you set your threshold.


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Last edited by C36 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C36
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by C36

mattr wrote:maybe the suppliers have decided that the profit margin on what they are selling isn't good enough, so they artificially create a demand (by either marketing or simply shutting down the supply chain) then tell everyone that it's the way forwards and anyone who still likes the old way is a fuddy duddy and should get out of Our Sport now, or toe the line.
Indeed, it is driven as a marketing replacement strategy where all have an interest. No other technology need such a complete renewal, disc necessarily means new frame, new wheels, new groupset (and until people are really familiar with, a lbs for maintenance).

It doesn’t means people may not benefit from the disc but simply that the strategy is to push the largest replacement possible regardless if you won’t need it.


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fxx
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

by fxx

I would be all for disc brakes if not for the 500 gram and above weight penalty which really makes the bike sluggish and ugly.

Even if technology improves for disc brake bikes to get lighter, the rim brake cousin would get even lighter, as non pros we are not bound to the 6.8 kg restrictions the lighter the better.

Disc brake bikes will NEVER be as light and nimble as rim brake bikes.

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 pm
If hydraulic disk brakes on road bikes are so good and so needed...
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
-Why do manufacturers spend so much money marketing them?
-Why have manufacturers had to force them on their pro riders and on the public through their dealerships?
-Why were last years winners of the Grand Tours all on rim brakes?
-Why will this years winners of the Grand Tours probably all be on rim brakes?
-Why doesn't the wealthiest pro cycle team demand disk brakes from its bike sponsor?
-Why have pro riders not wanted them for over five years and actually fought their introduction as best they could?
-Why do loads of adpoters go back to rim brakes again or regret their choice later?
-Why are some disk brake adopters so insecure and sensitive about their choice of brake? Tell me about how good your brakes are, not how rubbish mine are.
-Why do some manufacturers deliberately phase out rim brake bike models whilst manufacturing a different new kind of bike for every concievable road surface?
-Why do they so often rub, robbing the rider of valuable watts?
-Why the sudden lack of clamour to lower the UCI bike weight limit?
-If hydrualic disk brakes have existed for bicycles for well over 10 years are they suddenly now oh so popular and being used on road bikes?
-Why is there such little evidence of them being better other than psychological self delusion other than in the wet?
-Why do they seem like a mountain bike brake slapped on a road bike rather than something designed specifically for road bikes?
-Why don't the manufacturers at least standardize spacing, axle sizes and disk sizes so users can easily switch wheels on their bike and so pros can change wheels in a race?
-Why do I need the extra power if I can leave black lines with rim brakes on 23-28mm tires?
-Why not give direct mount brakes time and investment to improve in terms of design, rim surface and pad instead?
-Why make such an issue of carbon rim's delamination/wear, when you can get perfectly nice wheels with alloy brake tracks or coated alloy for a reasonable weight?
-Why wouldn't you just put a disk brake on the front wheel where it's 'superiority' is really needed and not pointlessly drag around the extra weight and complexity of a rear disk brake?
-Why do I need extra modulation if good calipers and rim combinations eg DT SWISS wheels, Camapagnolo wheels, Dura Ace calipers and EE couldn't concievably have more?
-Why is it really only highly profit driven American Corporations that seem to pushing for disk brakes so vehemently?
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Who’s the insecure one? Probably the one who just wrote a manifesto with a few lies thrown in.

For example, Trek, an American company released its top-tier rim-brake aero bike in 2019. Cervelo, a Canadian company, did not. BMC, a Swiss company, did not. Focus, a German company, did not. Giant, a Japanese company, did not.

OMG how can global warming be real if *holds snowball* this was outside in April? Yep, Lewn777 sounds just like a conspiracy theorist.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

alcatraz
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I was adjusting my friend's loose headset on the road and did the hold front brake trick to check for play. His bike is a 2018 giant tcr disc brake and shimano c40 wheels. I couldn't do it this way because the whole front end felt springy. I concluded that the fork and front wheel were flexing as I was rocking the bike.

I'm sure this isn't happening on all bikes but wow, I'm just trying to imagine the flex of braking on a steep descent, especially when the full weight is on the bike and when letting the discs cool by braking hard on/off.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

fxx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:12 pm
I would be all for disc brakes if not for the 500 gram and above weight penalty which really makes the bike sluggish and ugly.

Even if technology improves for disc brake bikes to get lighter, the rim brake cousin would get even lighter, as non pros we are not bound to the 6.8 kg restrictions the lighter the better.

Disc brake bikes will NEVER be as light and nimble as rim brake bikes.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Oddly, disc brake bikes put that extra weight closer to the ground, which is the center of rotation for side-to-side rocking movement. Imagine swinging a slightly lighter hammer by its handle and a slightly heavier hammer by its head. Which one feels more agile?

zefs
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:27 pm
I was adjusting my friend's loose headset on the road and did the hold front brake trick to check for play. His bike is a 2018 giant tcr disc brake and shimano c40 wheels. I couldn't do it this way because the whole front end felt springy. I concluded that the fork and front wheel were flexing as I was rocking the bike.

I'm sure this isn't happening on all bikes but wow, I'm just trying to imagine the flex of braking on a steep descent, especially when the full weight is on the bike and when letting the discs cool by braking hard on/off.
Mine was like that but didn't act like that when actually descending, I think it has been mentioned/discussed in the past and that it's just how discs are because of their placement on the bottom of the wheel instead of the top.

CallumRD1
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:54 pm

by CallumRD1

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:27 pm
I was adjusting my friend's loose headset on the road and did the hold front brake trick to check for play. His bike is a 2018 giant tcr disc brake and shimano c40 wheels. I couldn't do it this way because the whole front end felt springy. I concluded that the fork and front wheel were flexing as I was rocking the bike.

I'm sure this isn't happening on all bikes but wow, I'm just trying to imagine the flex of braking on a steep descent, especially when the full weight is on the bike and when letting the discs cool by braking hard on/off.
The flex you're feeling is just windup in the spokes. Because the caliper clamping on the rotor is at the hub but the contact patch is at the tyre, the spokes have to transmit the braking force from the hub to the rim. The exact same effect is experienced when you put power through the cranks and the spokes of the rear wheel transmit the torque from the hub to the rim, it's just much more obvious when checking headset preload.

by Weenie


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