Colnago C60 Inflammatory Thread

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
guyc
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by guyc

After years on Madones, Ultimates and Giants I smile from ear to ear every time I ride my C64.

It’s the perfect bike for me.

by Weenie


mag
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by mag

Not wanting to derail this thread, but to me it's interesting that you mention Protos here as I consider it (and mostly all current DeRosas) as one of the best examples of clueless carbon engineering. I mean those who developed it understand really nothing about it at all, it's just like some generic Chinese frame made out of some material without really understanding its properties and utilizing them to their advantage. Compare that with the likes of Look or Trek for example, totally different world. I wouldn't touch it even with a dirty toilet brush.

zappafile123
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by zappafile123

mag wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:32 am
Not wanting to derail this thread, but to me it's interesting that you mention Protos here as I consider it (and mostly all current DeRosas) as one of the best examples of clueless carbon engineering. I mean those who developed it understand really nothing about it at all, it's just like some generic Chinese frame made out of some material without really understanding its properties and utilizing them to their advantage. Compare that with the likes of Look or Trek for example, totally different world. I wouldn't touch it even with a dirty toilet brush.
hahahahah!

I rode the 2015 King XS and thought it was shit and I've heard that the SK is also shit. But honestly the 2016 Protos I have is a cool bike (you know, the one with the huge downtube) . It's a fukn' weapon (imagine an aussie accent there). It’s no world beater by any stretch of the imagination, but it's fun to ride - pure racers bike; you hammer it and it flies... or at least it feels like it flies. Ride slow on it and its nothing special. Handling is among the best I've experienced, probably second best descender behind the Basso Diamante.

I'm curious about your clueless design comment - what makes you say that? Genuine interest there. As for being like a generic Chinese frame... maybe it terms of the layup, but they're made in Italy... not sure if that makes a difference...
Enigma Elite HSS| Spesh Tarmac SL6|Colnago C60|De Rosa Protos|Bianchi Oltre XR4&XR2|BMC SLR01 16|Cannondale Evo HM 12|Focus Izalco Max| Ridley Helium SL|Basso Diamante 15|Scapin Dyseys S8|Time ZXRS|Giant TCR SL 12| Ridley Noah 08|Look 585|Cervelo SLC

mag
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by mag

^ To me it's pretty generic frame made to be pretty stiff and that's all. Not really much thought put into how to manage forces and vibrations going through the construction and thus where to make it more or less stiffer in which directions etc. So it's good in some range of aspects where the current approach (together with the geometry) can show its strength (yes there's still some), but with carbon it's possible to achieve much more and make the bike well suited to wider range of conditions. Sure it would lose some of its edge but it would be overall more usable and it would be change for the good.

I'm interested in the new Basso Diamante by the way, it looks really promising - as well as the new Look 795 Blade RS which is going to be very well thought and made frame no doubt and the ride shouldn't disappoint either. And from my point of view Basso is pretty underrated overall.

As for Colnago C-series, it's the last widely available lugged carbon frame so the method of its construction makes it an outlier and thus an interesting piece for some. There could be still place in the world for something like that and it seems it is. I've seen some small companies also building some lugged carbon frames, but those were in made in small quantities and often had some serious quality (durability) issues due to the glue not being of good quality.
What I like about it is that it's good road allrounder, giving an impression of something like a racy endurance frame, but not being strictly the endurance one. Yes it's a bit sluggish compared to some frames if you put it under load (I call it as being slightly "lazy"), but you can take it almost anywhere and enjoy your ride regardless the conditions. But I'm talking more about the C64, no direct experience with C60. But when someone mentioned having his ass beaten up after riding C60 I have to say it really isn't the case with C64 which is very nice to ride over bad roads (something absolutely unavoidable for me for example). Whether you go slower or faster (even over these terrible roads) it still feels very composed and maintains very good stability. Good one to ride it all day long. But yes if you want to hammer it on the flats or descents as much as you can, or climb like some skinny mountain goat then there are other choices which fit those purposes better. I think it's thus a good choice if you don't want to maintain large stable of bikes suited for various purposes. One problem I have with these C-series frames is pricing. At the RRP they're really expensive for what you get, but when you can get them for less (and it isn't that hard, at least in EU) then you get to the territory where they belong (of course by my opinion). Protos is also heavily overpriced by the way. I understand the price has to be inevitably higher for these frames not being "made in Asia", but it's still more than I consider reasonable for them. But if they keep selling well enough...

AJS914
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by AJS914

I don't quite get the characterizations of slow, lazy or sluggish.

I've had bikes that "feel" fast which, to me, doesn't make them actually faster. My Calfee felt insanely fast on smooth roads. On chipseal it was teeth rattling. I couldn't cure it with 28mm tires. My Time had a racy steering geometry and a shorter front center than my C59 but I don't think that resulted in faster cornering. My point is that feeling faster and actually being faster aren't the same thing.

Expecting a C-series to blow your mind is just putting too high of expectations on the bike. In the end, it is a great all arounder. And for that reason I love my C59. As well, Colnago geometry really fits me well.

And I do agree with MSRP being way out of whack. I'd never pay $6,000 for any frame unless I had lottery money falling out of my pockets. And, it's sad that you read about so many quality control issues on the forums at this price point. The problem is that people aren't buying these bikes off the shelf. They are doing mail order from Europe in order to get these frames for $4,000. Even at $4,000, the customer expects perfection and sometimes doesn't get it.

mag
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by mag

Re sluggishness - from my perspective it's about the feeling that some of the energy (power) you put onto it is lost in the transfer. I mean more than with some other frames (Basso Diamante, Time Alpe'd Huez for example). But it may be just a feeling, I have never measured it. :-D

welchy
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by welchy

I have had an S Works Tarmac, Venge, SuperSix, Canyon Aeroad and my C60.

I'm also way off the generic demographic everybody is slamming, not got all the money in the world. Still in my 20s and think the c60 blows the socks of anything else i've ridden, the ride is very nimble and great on descents - been solid for crit racing, power transfer awesome.

Maybe its the wheelsets some of these people have been using partly to blame?

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Leviathan
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by Leviathan

zappafile123 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:24 pm
Handling is among the best I've experienced, probably second best descender behind the Basso Diamante.
Love my Diamante. Great for a day in the mountains. My Pinarello F8 was great for putting the hammer down, as was the early edition Canyon I had before they got so huge... . Other bikes like the Time I had did all day comfort.
I rented a C60 here and struggled to really place it...Even the Cannondale Supersix seemed a much better all round bike.
Last edited by Leviathan on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Leviathan
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by Leviathan

dbl

guyc
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by guyc

So essentially people like different bikes.

MyM3Coupe
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by MyM3Coupe

I think Colnago is a similar situation to Derosa in that their best days are WAY behind them. Their carbon bikes are bland and not really engineered well (buy carbon tubes and gluing them together in Italy isn't engineering). Examine the quality of Time, Look or even a Sarto, it's clear these bikes are VERY well finished with great attention to detail and excellent QA.

Bigger Gear
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by Bigger Gear

AJS914 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:26 pm
And I do agree with MSRP being way out of whack. I'd never pay $6,000 for any frame unless I had lottery money falling out of my pockets. And, it's sad that you read about so many quality control issues on the forums at this price point. The problem is that people aren't buying these bikes off the shelf. They are doing mail order from Europe in order to get these frames for $4,000. Even at $4,000, the customer expects perfection and sometimes doesn't get it.
In the case of my EP and my C60 these were both purchased from dealers local(ish) to me, and both had issues. I'm sure with the EP I could have had it replaced by warranty, but the easier solution was just to have a local builder re-machine the one dropout properly. With my C60, the oversized fork steerer was not a problem until I attempted to take the bike apart for cleaning and service, and found the fork was almost welded in place by the compression ring. In any case, at the price of these frames these quality issues should be non-issues. I've bought several frames "built by hand" from custom builders in my lifetime and built them up myself and never faced issues like I (and others) have had with Colnago.

There is a local shop near me that does a fair number of Colnago, Cipollini, Basso and Sarto. The owner and mechanic, who is an engineer by education, always jokes about the "surprise factor" when he builds anything Italian, like there is almost always some minor issue that he has to sort out.
Last edited by Bigger Gear on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bigger Gear
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by Bigger Gear

NM.

robertbb
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by robertbb

Bigger Gear wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:47 pm


There is a local shop near me that does a fair number of Colnago, Cipollini, Basso and Sarto. The owner and mechanic, who is an engineer by education, always jokes about the "surprise factor" when he builds anything Italian, like there is almost always some minor issue that he has to sort out.
Similar deal to the standard Italian warranty. Lasts only until the your cheque clears and/or you've exited the front door.

I wouldn't waste my money on anything other than a steel Colnago. And even then I'd want to see the frame in the flesh first.

Campagnolo finish quality is on a downward spiral too in my experience.

spartacus
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by spartacus

guyc wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:18 pm
So essentially people like different bikes.
Seems like there are many factors at play here. Hard to imagine a C60 feeling like a potato uphill but I've never ridden one. My 1982 colnago climbs fine :up:

by Weenie


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