Low hanging aero fruit - handlebars?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
RocketRacing
Posts: 947
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I say look at the zipp data at the top of this page. Ignoring the riders abysmal non/aero jacket, based on their own data, aero bars are worth about as much as going one size smaller for bars. Makes sense that gains would be small, as the tops are only part of the frontal area of bars.

Compact drop should be more aero than classic drop. Narrow is faster. Aero tops are faster. Aero stems are faster. Not wrapping the tops is faster. Aero plugs may be faster. Dropping your hoods to be more level with the bars should be faster. Do all the above and gains may be beyond the margin of measuring error.

Instead of aero bars, i opted for lighter narrower (38cm vs 40cm) darimo drop bars with untaped tops. I am not saying aero bars would not be faster... but leading edge or not... it is a small gain in the big picture.

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 3006
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You guys running 44/42 bars are lucky because you can go to 40 which is available for all bars.

When you're already on 40 it's hell to go down. I'm running an integtated stem/bar combo and the smallest are usually 40. If there is a 38 or 36 then it's usually either expensive or heavy.

Enjoy easy downsizing. :D

shimmeD
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

Spare a thought also for those who are already on 36cm!
Less is more.

alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'm crying on the inside for everyone on 40 or less :lol:

RocketRacing
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I cry for larger riders who are naturally more unaerodnamic. Your large frames have taller headtubes and wider bars. On average you are wider also. :-P

hanakuso1
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:44 pm

by hanakuso1

Maybe I’m just out of shape but handlebar width is one of the options I prefer comfort over speed. I seem to get a lot of discomfort using too narrow handlebars

Marin
Posts: 3608
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

I'm running 36s on my daily commuter, you get used to it. The 38s and 40s on my other bikes feel wide when I switch.
Last edited by Marin on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

StevenH72
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:17 pm

by StevenH72

hanakuso1 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:54 am
Maybe I’m just out of shape but handlebar width is one of the options I prefer comfort over speed. I seem to get a lot of discomfort using too narrow handlebars
This is important, narrow handlebars don't necessarily equal better aerodynamics.


There's a good "Aero deep dive" vid on the Trainerroad youtube channel talking to the guy's from the Specialized Win Tunnel where they discuss this.

Narrow bars are only quiker if the rider can anatomically make use of them. In some cases narrow bars can alter the position of your shoulder blades and arms and negatively impact aerodynamics.

robeambro
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

StevenH72 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:38 am
hanakuso1 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:54 am
Maybe I’m just out of shape but handlebar width is one of the options I prefer comfort over speed. I seem to get a lot of discomfort using too narrow handlebars
This is important, narrow handlebars don't necessarily equal better aerodynamics.


There's a good "Aero deep dive" vid on the Trainerroad youtube channel talking to the guy's from the Specialized Win Tunnel where they discuss this.

Narrow bars are only quiker if the rider can anatomically make use of them. In some cases narrow bars can alter the position of your shoulder blades and arms and negatively impact aerodynamics.
While I understand those guys will have tested it in their tunnel, I find it strange that for some it could bring an aerodynamics penalty (discomfort aside).
Would such people be negatively affected also when using TT bars then? It's still a case of having to get narrower, after all..

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5471
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robeambro wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:42 am

While I understand those guys will have tested it in their tunnel, I find it strange that for some it could bring an aerodynamics penalty (discomfort aside).
Would such people be negatively affected also when using TT bars then? It's still a case of having to get narrower, after all..

Shoulders are weird. Some TTers don't run their forearm/elbow pads as close together as possible because it actually increases their frontal area at the shoulders. In the TrainerRoad podcast, the Specialized guys use a less fair comparison of a rider using narrower bars only to raise his head 1cm as a result.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I don't know if anyone is interested in this topic anymore... well, I am. So:
I have a beautiful race bike (Specialized Roubaix Team Edition) with an even more bling stem/handle bar.
With comfort etc. I am super happy. However, with the picks of the new Tarmac SL7 releasing, a bike that looks nigh on identical to my Roubaix Team, I started thinking. There are only two main differences. Firstly, the cut out around the rear wheel, that was already featured on Venge and SL6, has not come to the Roubaix. Not really anything I miss a lot, since even Specialized's fastest bike, the Shiv TT, doesn't have that.

Now to the relevant bit to this thread. The Tarmac SL7 features a bar and stem combo that looks like the Aerofly (Venge) handlebar. This option is also available for the Roubaix Team, however without the cables fully integrated. Do you think a move from my current handle bars (THM Tibia + THM Ulna; I would just put them on another bike) to the Aerofly (or another Aero option like the ENVE Aero Handlebar) would yield any relevant gain? The handle bar I would be substituting is not a full round bar, but not nearly as aero as the Aerofly. If anyone has any data or experience here, that would be awesome.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.6kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.4kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.5kg
Specialized SW Roubaix Team (2020) - 7.5kg

Ronin416
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:46 pm

by Ronin416

If you're going with the ENVE. The hood position is 3cm narrower than the drops. Which definitely helps with maintaining a smaller frontal area to push through the wind. I have them on my Tarmac SL6 and love them. Though the Aerofly II would of matched better, I like the narrower on the hoods position to keep my shoulders rolled-in while rolling on the flats and leaving the bare carbon parts exposed to do what they should.

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cyclespeed
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Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

If you like riding fast, go for it. If you're more a climber / randonneur, probably not worth it....

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:04 pm
Do you think a move from my current handle bars (THM Tibia + THM Ulna; I would just put them on another bike) to the Aerofly (or another Aero option like the ENVE Aero Handlebar) would yield any relevant gain? The handle bar I would be substituting is not a full round bar, but not nearly as aero as the Aerofly. If anyone has any data or experience here, that would be awesome.
I don't have data on hand but I'm sure you can google but I seem to recall that aero road bars are worth about 5 watts at typical race/elite ITT speeds. If you can get rid of cables it's 1-2 watts.

Lower hanging fruit is an aero road helmet (about 10 watts) or tight fitting "race fit" kit or a skin suit (just guessing 5-20 watts) depening on how flappy your current kit is.

by Weenie


FlatlandClimber
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

AJS914 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:27 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:04 pm
Do you think a move from my current handle bars (THM Tibia + THM Ulna; I would just put them on another bike) to the Aerofly (or another Aero option like the ENVE Aero Handlebar) would yield any relevant gain? The handle bar I would be substituting is not a full round bar, but not nearly as aero as the Aerofly. If anyone has any data or experience here, that would be awesome.
I don't have data on hand but I'm sure you can google but I seem to recall that aero road bars are worth about 5 watts at typical race/elite ITT speeds. If you can get rid of cables it's 1-2 watts.

Lower hanging fruit is an aero road helmet (about 10 watts) or tight fitting "race fit" kit or a skin suit (just guessing 5-20 watts) depening on how flappy your current kit is.
As a rider who competes in TTs, I am pretty well kitted in terms of Skin suit, helmets, aero shoe covers and so on.

5 watts at 40-45k sounds not really worth it. Not really sure what I was expecting...
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.6kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.4kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.5kg
Specialized SW Roubaix Team (2020) - 7.5kg

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