hey weight weenies....have you regretted going disc OR aero?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Hexsense
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Disc brake is actually a better value choce for me, middle class purchaser that build bike from parts rather than buying a complete bike.
I prefer deep carbon rims over alloy rim for obvious weight, aero, stiffness reasons.
But wide, deep, light carbon wheels that brake well in wet and are reliable in long descend are from big company that demand top money.
So, what do i do?
A.) Accept the limitation and be careful riding in those condition with chinese carbon fiber wheel.
B.) Bite the bullet to get wheel with brake track that perform decent in wet. $$$
C.) Buy wheel with Alloy brake track with carbon fairing instead. This brake better than choice B. Here we already pay the weight. Normally this is also coming in more expensive than chinese carbon fiber wheelset.
D.) Finally, buy disc version chinese carbon fiber wheelset. Saved some weight from rim and pay in heavier hub and rotors (still gain weight, ~220g).
Use Juin tech F1 or TRP Spyre (they weight similar to Dura-ace rim brake calipers) and keep the same cable lever.

Between C and D, they weight similar but one have more weight near hub, another at the outer perimeter of the rim. Thru-axle vs QR and brake performance aside.

Living with choice D.) for a while, moving from choice A.)
I'm happy with disc brake, except... i should select a frame more carefully, my frame doesn't accept Juin tech F1 in the rear and i have to use TRP Spyre, which is noticeably weaker than the Juin tech F1.

Seeing Hambini's aero test. With disc brake, i don't see myself buying top dollar exotic disc wheels over reputable chinese wheels at all.

dricked
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:57 pm

by dricked

Disc groupsets are more expensive than rim brake, not enough to completely offset a nice set of wheels but the second hand market for rim brake wheels is far more plentiful as well.

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Understood, if you really need full hydraulic then it's more expensive, yes.
But we can keep the same old cable levers, and use Juin Tech F1, or TRP Spyre calipers.

sethjs
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

I just bought the S-Works Venge - so have gone aero + disc. For context, I ride in the SF Bay Area. So *lots* of hills. Usually dry. Sometimes rainy. frequently "damp" mornings. Crap roads. Also ride a Baum Corretto, Bianchi Infinito and a Diverge.

My net: *love* the Venge and think it's the best bike I've ever owned - so don't regret road disc or aero. Why?

1. With our climbing and descending, I think discs are great.
2. Carbon clinchers were always sketch on our "damp" mornings. Obviously not so with discs.
3. The bike is comfortable - I'm not sure if it's that they nailed the carbon layup, or if it's that I'm running tubeless with pressures at 70 front and 80 rear (I weigh 160 lbs). But it's actually even more comfortable than the Bianchi.
4. It's pretty light. 7.4 kg w/pedals & cages. That's not far off my other 2 - or even my old RCA when I had Di2 and an SRM on it.
5. I've done enough testing that it's pretty clear the aero advantage is real. It's much easier to see expressed in watts than times, though. 7 watts faster doesn't actually get you that many more seconds over 10 miles!
6. Yes - the discs are a bit more work to work on. I learned to bleed on the Diverge. It's just not that hard. I'm finicky with rim brake setup, too, so to me it's about the same effort. For aligning, I shove a business card or two in between the caliper and the rotor.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

sethjs wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:49 am
I just bought the S-Works Venge - so have gone aero + disc. For context, I ride in the SF Bay Area. So *lots* of hills. Usually dry. Sometimes rainy. frequently "damp" mornings. Crap roads. Also ride a Baum Corretto, Bianchi Infinito and a Diverge.

My net: *love* the Venge and think it's the best bike I've ever owned - so don't regret road disc or aero. Why?

1. With our climbing and descending, I think discs are great.
2. Carbon clinchers were always sketch on our "damp" mornings. Obviously not so with discs.
3. The bike is comfortable - I'm not sure if it's that they nailed the carbon layup, or if it's that I'm running tubeless with pressures at 70 front and 80 rear (I weigh 160 lbs). But it's actually even more comfortable than the Bianchi.
4. It's pretty light. 7.4 kg w/pedals & cages. That's not far off my other 2 - or even my old RCA when I had Di2 and an SRM on it.
5. I've done enough testing that it's pretty clear the aero advantage is real. It's much easier to see expressed in watts than times, though. 7 watts faster doesn't actually get you that many more seconds over 10 miles!
6. Yes - the discs are a bit more work to work on. I learned to bleed on the Diverge. It's just not that hard. I'm finicky with rim brake setup, too, so to me it's about the same effort. For aligning, I shove a business card or two in between the caliper and the rotor.
^ same... except I'm on CX/Gravel type frame.. and 28c @ 60psi... (supple 4 sure) The bay area will definately show love for disc with all the hills. The aero frame comes next and it will be disc as well.

jih
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

LeDuke wrote: Kate Courtney is 162cm and won the XCO World Championship on a 29er. Unless someone has abnormally short legs for their height, they should be able to get a proper hip angle on a 29er.
This is about average height for a woman in the west. How would it be for a woman in the 25th percentile by height? I know plenty of women around 150-155cm - about five foot. Not saying it wouldn’t work, but I’m curious where the limit of 29” is. Women’s road bikes in XS start to look pretty weird with 700c.

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

I switched to an Aeroad Disc from a Tarmac rim brake, so I went all in. Love the change. Yes, the bike is heavier, but I weigh 205 lbs, so its not the bike that's slowing me down... I love being able to stop with very low effort because we have a lot of inattentive drivers and steep downhills that end at traffic lights. The areo is great because I just like going fast. The bike is stiff enough that it'll get up a hill without losing any power.

I honestly haven't had the problems you guys are talking about with discs. I've got 1200 miles on my Aeroad and haven't done a bit of maintenance on the brake system. Shimano r8000 hydro has been dead reliable. I just swapped out the Ultegra rotors for Sram Centerline X rotors, no change in feel or power. I've put a ton of road/gravel/cx miles on my Crux with Sram Rival hydro discs, swapping between two wheelsets, and this past weekend was the first time I ever had to adjust the caliper for brake rub in like 2 years. All I did was loosen the caliper bolts, tap it until the rotor didn't hit, and tighten them back up. No muss, no fuss, problem solved.

sawyer
Posts: 4513
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

chiltonp wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:20 pm
I currently ride a 2016 TCR Advanced SL with Ultegra di2 and Giant SLR wheels. I enjoy lightweight bikes, as well as climbing and even in my bike's modest configuration it weighs sub 16 pounds ready to ride.

I now have the itch to upgrade to a disc or aero setup, (potentially both) and know that I'll take a pretty good hit in the weight department. Have any of you noticed these disc or aero bikes climbing slower or more sluggishly, (assuming your new setup is slightly heavier)? I rarely ride in the rain so that negates one of the big benefits of discs, however the latest and greatest tech always seems to appeal to me.

Thanks,
Chilton
Got a Canyon Aeroad (current gen.) when they first came out 2-3 years back. Love it. Admittedly it's not quite as nimble / agile as some of the more pure WW framesets I've ridden (e.g. Focus Izalco Max), but all round, it's a touch faster, and comfortable.

You really don't lose much at all in the climbing department with the right aero bike.

No interest in discs as I don't live in the mountains and don't ride in the wet much. There would only be the downsides of incompatibility, cost, maintenence, inferior aerodynamics, weight gain, and inferior looks IMO.
Last edited by sawyer on Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

Hexsense
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

dcorn wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:11 pm
I just swapped out the Ultegra rotors for Sram Centerline X rotors, no change in feel or power. ... and this past weekend was the first time I ever had to adjust the caliper for brake rub in like 2 years. All I did was loosen the caliper bolts, tap it until the rotor didn't hit, and tighten them back up.
I'm testing both two exact disc rotors too. I liked Ultegra for a while until i noticed that crosswind from left side and right side doesn't feel the same. Placebo or not, i'm thinking to get rid of the aluminum fan blade in the middle of Ultegra rotor for much less frontal and side profile Centerline X. Thus i'm testing Centerline X rotors right now.
What annoy me is, they don't sit at the same place at all. Sram Centerline X sits like 1.5mm closer to the rim than Ultegra rotors. Hence switching back and fourth means i have to undo caliper bolts and reposition. It also make borrowing friend's wheel with Shimano rotors harder. Maybe i could add some spacer to centerlock interface to make Sram rotor stay at the same place as Shimano rotor, i guess.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

^ good to know... I'll just stick with Shimano so I dont have to deal with all that and keep it simple.

sockpuppet
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:38 pm

by sockpuppet

Allez Sprint Disc - Aero and Discy. No Regrets. Fast and stiff, a joy to ride hard.

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micky
Posts: 4917
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Vicenza
Contact:

by micky

sethjs wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:49 am
I just bought the S-Works Venge - so have gone aero + disc. For context, I ride in the SF Bay Area. So *lots* of hills. Usually dry. Sometimes rainy. frequently "damp" mornings. Crap roads. Also ride a Baum Corretto, Bianchi Infinito and a Diverge.

My net: *love* the Venge and think it's the best bike I've ever owned - so don't regret road disc or aero. Why?

1. With our climbing and descending, I think discs are great.
2. Carbon clinchers were always sketch on our "damp" mornings. Obviously not so with discs.
3. The bike is comfortable - I'm not sure if it's that they nailed the carbon layup, or if it's that I'm running tubeless with pressures at 70 front and 80 rear (I weigh 160 lbs). But it's actually even more comfortable than the Bianchi.
4. It's pretty light. 7.4 kg w/pedals & cages. That's not far off my other 2 - or even my old RCA when I had Di2 and an SRM on it.
5. I've done enough testing that it's pretty clear the aero advantage is real. It's much easier to see expressed in watts than times, though. 7 watts faster doesn't actually get you that many more seconds over 10 miles!
6. Yes - the discs are a bit more work to work on. I learned to bleed on the Diverge. It's just not that hard. I'm finicky with rim brake setup, too, so to me it's about the same effort. For aligning, I shove a business card or two in between the caliper and the rotor.
Image

mrfish
Posts: 1666
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland

by mrfish

Regret, yes. Setting up a Cervelo P5 for the first time is like repeatedly punching yourself in the face.

For instance to add or remove a headset spacer requires you to remove the rear wheel, undo the rear brake, remove the hydraulic hose and then undo and fully remove both shift cables, add the spacer then repeat in reverse, re-threading the cables, adjusting everything, including multiple rear wheel replacements to get the rear brake straight as the bolt is only accessible with the wheel out. And the rear facing dropouts don’t make it any easier. And if you’re unlucky you need to bleed the rear brake as well.

And nowhere does it say in the manual that cutting a small slot in the spacer to let the cables out solves this problem. I would have had more sympathy if the bike had been a new model, but by then it had been out for 2-3 years, so really there are no excuses Cervelo.

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:19 pm
I'm testing both two exact disc rotors too. I liked Ultegra for a while until i noticed that crosswind from left side and right side doesn't feel the same. Placebo or not, i'm thinking to get rid of the aluminum fan blade in the middle of Ultegra rotor for much less frontal and side profile Centerline X. Thus i'm testing Centerline X rotors right now.
What annoy me is, they don't sit at the same place at all. Sram Centerline X sits like 1.5mm closer to the rim than Ultegra rotors. Hence switching back and fourth means i have to undo caliper bolts and reposition. It also make borrowing friend's wheel with Shimano rotors harder. Maybe i could add some spacer to centerlock interface to make Sram rotor stay at the same place as Shimano rotor, i guess.
When I switched out my rotors, I didn't have to adjust a thing. No rotor rub with calipers in the same spot. Maybe you didn't fully seat the rotor on the hub?

spdntrxi
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

mrfish wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:32 pm
Regret, yes. Setting up a Cervelo P5 for the first time is like repeatedly punching yourself in the face.

For instance to add or remove a headset spacer requires you to remove the rear wheel, undo the rear brake, remove the hydraulic hose and then undo and fully remove both shift cables, add the spacer then repeat in reverse, re-threading the cables, adjusting everything, including multiple rear wheel replacements to get the rear brake straight as the bolt is only accessible with the wheel out. And the rear facing dropouts don’t make it any easier. And if you’re unlucky you need to bleed the rear brake as well.

And nowhere does it say in the manual that cutting a small slot in the spacer to let the cables out solves this problem. I would have had more sympathy if the bike had been a new model, but by then it had been out for 2-3 years, so really there are no excuses Cervelo.
P5 is TT bike.. = dont count. They are always full of compromises. I have to remove the crank to adjust or change my rear brake pad on my BMC.

by Weenie


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