Custom framesets popularity

[ultimobici]

Really shit's me that there isn't a big fat like button on WW's...

Thank you and you’re welcome!



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[sawyer]

LOL at the house painting analogy

I'd say most people have custom painted home interiors

And that it is ever so slightly more expensive to paint the inside of a house than it is to paint a bicycle

If I was to employ a firm to paint the inside of my house it would cost £3k-£5k to do the whole thing.

[RyanH]

Just because a company is big and employs engineers doesn’t make it better. Ford are huge and yet they gave us the Pinto. A death trap. Shimano are huge too yet we got Biopace. A degree just tells us you went to school.
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There's a misunderstanding of how cars come to life (or products): a designer comes up with a concept, an engineer makes it real and then someone from accounting comes through and guts it to make it cost effective.

With that being said, I'd bet that most people would find a Giant TCR (this is probably a bad choice since I don't have first had experience but it has won best bike of the year quite a few years in the row) to ride better (blind folded) than a custom Sarto. Warranty issues are a result of manufacturing issues, not engineering design issues (typically). Engineers are not infallible but at least they'd be able to calculate and demonstrate how much and why a carbon layup should differ for large person vs a small person. What is being suggested is that custom builders provide frames based on trial and error...that's reassuring...

[RyanH]

I should add, this is what building by trial and error can sometimes result in:

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 5#p1418490

[ultimobici]

I should add, this is what building by trial and error can sometimes result in:

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 5#p1418490

To compare Craddock/Filament with the likes of Sarto etc is disingenuous. Trial & error is how many designs are perfected, even in the age of computer modelling. Practicing with a client’s frame is the issue.


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[ultimobici]

With that being said, I'd bet that most people would find a Giant TCR (this is probably a bad choice since I don't have first had experience but it has won best bike of the year quite a few years in the row) to ride better (blind folded) than a custom Sarto....

I doubt it.

Had a VXRS that I think most epitomises engineering led design. Fitted like a glove and on the flats& climbs it was wonderful. However, downhill it was as nervous as a turkey at Christmas. I’ve ridden a couple of frames built by what you’d refer to as “unqualified” builders and, while they both mimicked the VXRS in the fit & flat/climb areas, they were perfectly composed down hill too. Odd that!


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[NickJHP]

Another consideration going custom is the rider’s weight.

+1 on this. I'm reasonably tall (178cm), but I only weigh 65kg, so any off-the-shelf frame that I buy has to be designed to potentially cope with far heavier riders, and is going to be much stiffer than I want/need. I have five Ti frames (a Kinesis, a Litespeed, two Lynskeys, and a Baum) - by far the nicest to ride is the custom Ti that Darren Baum made for me, as the tubing gauges are lighter than in the OTS frames.

[Lightweenie]

I agree that essentially any rider has some 2-3cm wiggle room and can find his perfect on almost all production frames with the right seatpost-setback and stem length/angle.

I also agree that several aspects of a frame are probably much better when done by a bigger brand with more resources and engineers, for example having the right amount of flex for the size of the frame, etc.

But in my opinion there is another aspect that is often overlooked and this is the aspects of handling that are related to fit. In particular when playing around with seatpost setbacks, stem lengths, or a couple of spacers you also change the weight distribution of the rider on the bike and therefore affect its handling. A custom builder (even one without an engineering degree) should be able to, given exactly where the contact points of the rider are located, place the wheels accordingly, set the headtube angle, etc to get back to the intended handling characteristics.

@RyanH: I assume the custom frames you had were built for other people, and with other stem/seatpost setups in mind?

That being said, I never owned a custom-built frame, so take my writings with a grain of salt. But I am considering to perhaps get one at some point in the future, for the above reason.

[wheelsONfire]

You can be inbetween sizes and/ or need a higher bike, shorter bike etc.
Most bikes are made long and low these days (total race fit).
You also, as mentioned above, have the aspect of your weight and stiffness vs flex/ comfort.
Angles of headtube together with fork offset/ rake increase/ decrease steering/ handling.
The aspect of if you want a calm stable bike or something that is the opposite.
The whole idea is too not talk of wiggle room, which can be quite huge in terms of position on a bike.
For some it can come down to buying a bike that for once is made after your ideal.
I guess if you read up and learn from previous bikes, you might get a feel for what you really want.
It's not really complicated.

Getting a bike that is more prone to fit you, may lead you to a off the rack bike that is not chosen due to brand or bling, but actual fit.
Most guys buy what looks cool, whats fashion.

For some, custom is related to unusual body proportions.

[Robbyville]

[/quote]

With that being said, I'd bet that most people would find a Giant TCR (this is probably a bad choice since I don't have first had experience but it has won best bike of the year quite a few years in the row) to ride better (blind folded) than a custom Sarto.
[/quote]

Holy cow, a blind folded riding test, now that's crazier than buying a custom bike!

[2old4this]

I should add, this is what building by trial and error can sometimes result in:

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 5#p1418490

Good example of why having a degree does not lead one to be a good engineer. Alternative is true as well; not having a degree does not mean you cannot be a good engineer.

In real life, though, having a degree does indeed help (at least with your income... )

I have two reasons why I have three custom frames (a WW one, a titanium one for endurance, and one endurance/gravel with disc).

First, I have unnaturally short legs.

Second, (this will be controversial) I really don’t see myself paying $5000US ++ for a frame that is made in Taiwan/China. Please do not get me wrong, they are absolutely fine frames. But I do not see why I should pay for Brand X’s advertisement fees for a team sponsorship to show up in Tour The France. Their bikes are really not that much better than BrandY’s bikes.

So I figure, if I am going to have something special (after all that’s why we are buying BrandX bikes, right?), I’ll go find myself a custom builder, who would work with me to get something unique, and specially created for me.

Will it be the best quality? I doubt so. As a matter of fact, the treaded BB shell of one of the frames on the drive side just came out after about a year. I had it fixed. As simple as that. No need to fuss about such things as long as your manufacturer treats you right. Just enjoy your bike...

[Robbyville]

I should add, this is what building by trial and error can sometimes result in:

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 5#p1418490

Good example of why having a degree does not lead one to be a good engineer. Alternative is true as well; not having a degree does not mean you cannot be a good engineer.

In real life, though, having a degree does indeed help (at least with your income... )

I have two reasons why I have three custom frames (a WW one, a titanium one for endurance, and one endurance/gravel with disc).

First, I have unnaturally short legs.

Second, (this will be controversial) I really don’t see myself paying $5000US ++ for a frame that is made in Taiwan/China. Please do not get me wrong, they are absolutely fine frames. But I do not see why I should pay for Brand X’s advertisement fees for a team sponsorship to show up in Tour The France. Their bikes are really not that much better than BrandY’s bikes.

So I figure, if I am going to have something special (after all that’s why we are buying BrandX bikes, right?), I’ll go find myself a custom builder, who would work with me to get something unique, and specially created for me.

Will it be the best quality? I doubt so. As a matter of fact, the treaded BB shell of one of the frames on the drive side just came out after about a year. I had it fixed. As simple as that. No need to fuss about such things as long as your manufacturer treats you right. Just enjoy your bike...

Agreed, as mentioned earlier, by the time I was done adding up the prices of all my modifications my build ended up being incredibly close to the same high end models of certain manufacturers (mass market)

[wheelsONfire]

One custombuilder wrote me this:
We keep 23 different points under control so we can guarantee the perfect result in terms of performance, comfort, stiffness where needed and so on.
I don't like to hassle them more, but it kind of makes me wonder,.... 23 points!!
Anyone of you guys have even a guess of how they come up to so many?

[Wookski]

Anyone of you guys have even a guess of how they come up to so many?

So instead of just asking the builder you’d rather speculate?

[wheelsONfire]

No, not really.
It's a check you undergo when you order, but since i didn't order i don't know.
But i'm still curious if anyone have an idea.