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Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:58 pm
by 99spokes
Not weight related... but might be of some interest. We just added a visual geometry comparison view to https://99spokes.com that uses the size and geometry information from the manufacturer. This make it easy to see the main geometry differences at a glance.
Image

Here's an example comparison - https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=ridl ... elite-2018

Would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 pm
by bikeboy1tr
This is very cool, I just wish they had a little more selection for bikes on the site. Geometry is typically the first thing I look at when checking new frames. This is a great visual I think.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 pm
by Weenie

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:45 pm
by wheelsONfire
Same here, geometry..... i guess that's why i'm now dreaming of a custom made frameset

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:37 am
by Noctiluxx
Really nice! Please add De Rosa to the list. Appreciate the work!

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:14 am
by Mep
No geometry for Supersix Evo? I tried at least 10 different models and years but no luck.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 pm
by BagelMaster
Mep wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:14 am
No geometry for Supersix Evo? I tried at least 10 different models and years but no luck.
Likewise! I have a 2017 Hi-Mod Disc available at the shop for $2500 I'm curious about. I rode it but it didn't feel like I wanted it to, but I wanted to see where I needed to adjust it to match my current position.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:58 pm
by 99spokes
BagelMaster wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Mep wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:14 am
No geometry for Supersix Evo? I tried at least 10 different models and years but no luck.
Likewise! I have a 2017 Hi-Mod Disc available at the shop for $2500 I'm curious about. I rode it but it didn't feel like I wanted it to, but I wanted to see where I needed to adjust it to match my current position.
Cannondale publishes geometry data as images πŸ™ making it very difficult to extract programmatically. We're actually in the middle of experimenting with using an OCR tool to convert the geometry image to text. It's going... ok. I think ultimately we're going to have to accept user contributions.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:05 pm
by 99spokes
Noctiluxx wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:37 am
Really nice! Please add De Rosa to the list. Appreciate the work!
Thanks for the feedback, I'll get De Rosa on our list!

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:26 pm
by ms6073
Would be nice if the user could manually enter data for a non-listed bike, sort of a wiki style interface that way non-listed bikes are no longer an issue.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:53 pm
by sfo423
Interesting. How do you get it to overlay each compared frame geo on the diagram?

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:18 pm
by Calnago
@99Spokes: What are you using as your reference point when comparing frames? It looks like you are using the BB center, which can really give some erroneous results unless the BB drop is exactly the same for all frames, which it’s not. For instance, two frames could have exactly the same stack height, yet the one with the greater BB drop would appear taller if the frames are aligned to BB center, when in reality it is the opposite. You really need to use level ground as the reference point, and some standard wheel radius for all of them to really compare the frames. Of course, then you will have the problem of centering the frames along the horizontal plane. With different chainstay lengths, front centers etc, perhaps the vertical line through the BB center might suffice for this. So while it is a nice visual, I think it’s far from telling the whole picture as to how handling might differ due to the geometry differences. But that’s another topic entirely.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 pm
by BagelMaster
99spokes wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:58 pm
BagelMaster wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Mep wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:14 am
No geometry for Supersix Evo? I tried at least 10 different models and years but no luck.
Likewise! I have a 2017 Hi-Mod Disc available at the shop for $2500 I'm curious about. I rode it but it didn't feel like I wanted it to, but I wanted to see where I needed to adjust it to match my current position.
Cannondale publishes geometry data as images πŸ™ making it very difficult to extract programmatically. We're actually in the middle of experimenting with using an OCR tool to convert the geometry image to text. It's going... ok. I think ultimately we're going to have to accept user contributions.
Why don't you just scrape the info from https://geometrygeeks.bike/ ? While it may not be an official source, you could implement a report feature or manually check entries that aren't direct from manufacturer pages.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:10 pm
by 99spokes
ms6073 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:26 pm
Would be nice if the user could manually enter data for a non-listed bike, sort of a wiki style interface that way non-listed bikes are no longer an issue.
Totally agree, we're working on adding this feature.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:19 pm
by 99spokes
BagelMaster wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 pm
99spokes wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:58 pm
BagelMaster wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Mep wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:14 am
No geometry for Supersix Evo? I tried at least 10 different models and years but no luck.
Likewise! I have a 2017 Hi-Mod Disc available at the shop for $2500 I'm curious about. I rode it but it didn't feel like I wanted it to, but I wanted to see where I needed to adjust it to match my current position.
Cannondale publishes geometry data as images πŸ™ making it very difficult to extract programmatically. We're actually in the middle of experimenting with using an OCR tool to convert the geometry image to text. It's going... ok. I think ultimately we're going to have to accept user contributions.
Why don't you just scrape the info from https://geometrygeeks.bike/ ? While it may not be an official source, you could implement a report feature or manually check entries that aren't direct from manufacturer pages.
Scraping geometrygeeks violates their terms.

We just finished a first pass on using OCR techniques to convert Cannondale geometry t0 a text format we can use. It worked pretty well... we can now draw many Cannondale bikes.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:27 pm
by 99spokes
Calnago wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:18 pm
@99Spokes: What are you using as your reference point when comparing frames? It looks like you are using the BB center, which can really give some erroneous results unless the BB drop is exactly the same for all frames, which it’s not. For instance, two frames could have exactly the same stack height, yet the one with the greater BB drop would appear taller if the frames are aligned to BB center, when in reality it is the opposite. You really need to use level ground as the reference point, and some standard wheel radius for all of them to really compare the frames. Of course, then you will have the problem of centering the frames along the horizontal plane. With different chainstay lengths, front centers etc, perhaps the vertical line through the BB center might suffice for this. So while it is a nice visual, I think it’s far from telling the whole picture as to how handling might differ due to the geometry differences. But that’s another topic entirely.
Thans for the feedback @Calnago.

We deployed a change yesterday that uses the "ground" as the default alignment for comparisons, instead of BB center like you pointed out. When you hover various measurements in the table we change the origin point of alignment. For example, when hovering on BB Drop the bikes are aligned by their rear axles.

Re: Visual Geometry Comparison

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:27 pm
by Weenie