N+1, a cry for help?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wintershade
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

Help. I think I need an intervention.

For those of you with OND (Obsessive N+1 Disorder), how do you think about variety of bike types in your stable? I am faced with a situation where my obsession could result in me having 1 TT and 4 race-oriented rim brake road bikes (albeit different materials). Would I be better off building a more diverse collection that would theoreticlly expand my riding possibilities (even though I currently only ride road)?

More specifics. I am an Ironman triathlete, not really a road racer. Cycling is my weakest but favorite sport (midpack cyclist, but top 10% swimmer and strong runner). I currently own:
1) Canyon Speedmax SLX 9 SL (TT bike, DuraAce Di2 w/ Zipp 808 NSWs & 404 NSWs for windy days)
2) Canyon Ultimate SLX 9 Pro (Campy Record 11, Bora 50s) -- Don't really love this bike....

I have a custom Ti Enigma on order (in a somewhat more relaxed geo) which I'm planning to build Record 12 with wheels TBD.

I got impatient waiting for the Enigma and regretted selling an old custom steel bike, so I bought a Ritchey Road Logic for a song, so am planning to build that up (Chorus 11, Zonda or Shamals TBD depending on which look better) and leave at the office for days when I can sneak in a mid-day or early evening ride.

I recently saw a Bowman Palace:R, and nearly just impulsively ordered one to leave at my summer home. Build spec TBD, but probably Potenza 11 or Rival 22 level. Woudl be fun to race around the island on a snappy Al frame (haven't ridden Al in a decade and I hear a lot has changed).

Then I got thinking... what the hell do I need 4 road bikes for. What if I scrap the Enigma (just sell the frameset, if I ever even get it), and get a kick ass MTB (note, I've never mountain biked seriously, nor even know where I'd ride it). And what if instead of the Road Logic or Bowman, I get an "Adventure" bike or "Gravel Grinder" such as to leave at the office on at the summer place.

Or maybe I need to stop buying bikes and find a good psychiatrist.....

spdntrxi
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I started as a triathlete as well so I can relate.. although the bike portion is my strength.. but IM distance.. F'that :)

anyways... TT Tri Bike / Fast Road bike / Gravel Adventure bike is my preferred bike quiver. I would only add a fourth it would be a dedicated CRIT machine... but I hate crits in general. I have an old full suspension MTB, but it's just not my thing. I dont even count it oh and my eroica bike does not count either. :mrgreen:

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I defend my purchases by using them. I don't collect just for display.

If you put in the hours of riding and find uses for each bike then it's worth it I think.

If two bikes do the same work but one is favored over the other then I'd get rid of one.

Stickman
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:58 am

by Stickman

If you have anywhere to ride that's realistically nearby, I'm finding MTB to be loads of fun and something different to smashing out the miles on a road bike. I get more of a sense of achievement riding road, but more pure fun riding MTB.

I think a gravel bike might let you scratch the "get out and explore" itch while still being fairly familiar to your roadies.
Last edited by Stickman on Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stendhal
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am

by Stendhal

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:16 am
I defend my purchases by using them. I don't collect just for display.

If you put in the hours of riding and find uses for each bike then it's worth it I think.

If two bikes do the same work but one is favored over the other then I'd get rid of one.
<-- This. If you are more enthused about riding when you add another bike, and increase overall riding distance, it is a good addition.

Another idea, what I use: complementary bikes. I do not ride off road (bad back) or in triathlons, so I do not need too many bikes. Since 2011, I have two and only two bikes. The task is to find two bikes with different characteristics \ strengths, and for different primary uses (but also each good enough to ride with clubs or friends). Hopefully, when you ride each one you appreciate its strengths, so you ride more; and also you try to cover as much ground as possible in whatever metrics you choose (even aesthetics). To give you an idea of what I mean, here is my succession of complementary bikes:

2011-2012: one lightweight road bike (Cervelo R3, then R5) \ one aero bike (Cervelo S2). One for the hills, one for the flats. Switch to:
2012-2013: one common brand lightweight road bike (Cervelo R3, then R5) \ one exotic all around bike (Cyfac Cadence). If you have two bikes, why not have two different brands, to cover another company's strength? Also, I goofed on the S2 wheels, which muted its aero advantages. Switch to:
2013-2014: one lightweight road bike primarily in black (Cervelo R3, then R5) \ one aero bike of a different brand, primarily white (Noah Fast). The Cyfac did not do anything really well, when with two bikes you need to cover more territory. I also got tired of explaining what it was. Switch to:
2014-2015: one all-around road bike primarily in black with good weight (6.8k) and aero qualities (Willier CentoUno) \ one semi-exotic comfort bike primarily in white (Time Fluidity S). Sadly the Noah was ruined in a crash. The Wilier had enough lightweight and aero qualities to cover both of the old bikes, leaving room for a complementary bike I thought would be better for commuting and rougher roads (the Time). Switch to:
2015-2016: one all-around road bike primarily in black with good weight and aero qualities (Willier CentoUno) \ one comfort plus power bike in cool blue blanc and rouge (Lapierre Pulsium FDJ). I just did not warm up to the Time (sorry!), which had poor graphics and a huge headtube. Switch to:
2016: one all-around road bike primarily in black with even better weight and aero qualities (Pinarello Dogma F8 \ F10) \ one comfort plus power bike in cool blue blanc and rouge (Lapierre Pulsium FDJ). The Wilier was marred in a crash and I upgraded (yes), once Pinarello got the weight down from boat anchor status. Switch to:
2016-2017: one mass market carbon all-around road bike primarily in black with even better weight and aero qualities (Pinarello Dogma F8, then F10) \ one small batch local artisan production aluminum bike in blue \ white colors I picked (LOW//). There had been a difference between the prior two bikes that was a step too far: one was SRAM, one was Shimano. I was goofing up on shifting. I had an extra SRAM drivetrain I was going to use, but even though the Lapierre had good qualities, I decided to complement top end carbon with top end aluminum (also nostalgia for my 1990s bike). Aluminum bikes have improved such that they are no longer bone-chattering, and I decided that bike life is too short for a too-tame commuter \ comfort bike.
Today: LOW//'s slogan is "this machine kills carbon," and son of a gun it outlasted the Pinarello. Swapped that for a S-Works Tarmac for reasons explained in a separate thread at toooo much length.
Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (6.43 kg)
LOW// mki road (7.25 kg)
Retired: Pinarello Dogma F10 \ F8, Lapierre Pulsium FDJ, TIME Fluidity S, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2, R3, R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

NickJHP
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

To paraphrase Ralph McTell, if you know how many bicycles you have, then you don't have enough (he said it of guitars)...

AJS914
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Wintershade, it does sound like you went a bit overboard. :-)

I sold all my spare bikes, wheels, and parts a couple of years ago because I just didn't ride them enough. I tend to gravitate towards my favorite bike and not ride the others. It sounds like one problem is that you don't love your Canyon Ultimate so you keep buying other road bikes.

That said, I bought a Specialized Crux and turned it into a gravel bike last year and it became my favorite fall-winter-spring bike. I rode it exclusively because it snowed in the area and there was lots of sand/gravel on the roads. As soon as the roads were swept I went back to the road bike 70% of the time.

I guess I'm saying that I vote gravel bike if it can be ridden where you live.

I have a nice mountain bike and I haven't touched it since I built up the Crux. I was having so much fun on the gravel bike that I stopped riding the mountain bike since the Crux could do 99% of the mountain bike trails I would ride (just at a slower pace).

mrlobber
Posts: 806
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

I'm also guilty of the irresistible need to have N+1.

However, over years, I've come to an experience based conclusion that the essential stable consists of:
1) one TT bike (if you do TT and/or Tri)
2) one aero road bike for road racing (optional: two, if you do racing with lots of crashes as it will be inevitable you would crash as well)
3) one lightweight non aero road bike (can be a replacement in case point 2) is wrecked)
4) one winter bike (essentially a 1x cross/gravel bike with discs & fenders)

... and there is no point of having more than this number, EXCEPT :twisted:

5) one ultralight bike (could double as a lightweight bike, but then probably not for mass racing) - to show off in WW :D and just for fun to rocket up the bergs
6) one SPECIAL bike (could also be 5), or custom built Ti, ultralight, whatever, which is your dreambike - keep changing these until you have it)

You train on 2) or 3) in good weather, commute or train in bad weather on 4), and have 5) or 6) just for those special days when you feel beautiful that you're riding.

I don't know what defines "enough usage" for each of us, but between such a setup, you'd still be doing 1...4k km per bike per season at least.
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

mattr
Posts: 3921
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Sound like a load of beginners to me :wink: I'm running about 8 bikes at the moment (complete, useable) and 3 or 4 (maybe 5?) in various states of disassembly/service/waiting parts/waiting for me to show some interest in actually using them. Then my wifes array of bikes.
The bias is towards MTBs/CX though. Rather than road.

I have friends with two or three times that many bikes , then it actually starts to be a collection as some might not get used for a year or more. All mine have been used this summer.

Except the winter bikes, they get pressed into service soon.

JHeiro
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:27 pm
Location: Finland

by JHeiro

Suffering from a severe case of OND as well. The “clinical picture” is as follows:

1) TT bike (Giant Trinity TT)
2) semi-aero rim brake road bike with deep wheels (Pinarello Dogma F8 / Zipp 808)
3) ultralight rim brake road bike (Storck Fascenario F.3 / Lightweights)
4) light disc brake road bike (BMC Teammachine SLR 01)
5) endurance bike (custom Crisp ti)
6) rain bike with disc brakes and full length fenders (custom Enigma ti)
7) gravel bike (3T Exploro LTD)
8) cyclocross bike (Cannondale SuperX)
9) monstercross bike (custom Muru B.N.T. with Rohloff hub gear & carbon belt drive, 29x2.35 tires)

3) is a complementary bike, as is 7) (complement to cross bike). I’m planning to complement 2) with a full aero bike (Cervelo S5 / BMC TM01 / S-Works Venge) this off-season.

1) is for TT racing and training. 2) is for fast group rides, occasional road races and flat sportives. 3) is mainly for good weather extended commuting (70-120km/day). 4) is the travel bike which spends 4-5weeks / yr in the Alps or Pyrenees. 5) is for easy club rides or recovery rides. 6) for bad weather commuting. 7) for gravel riding and occasional commutes. 8) and 9) are off-season / winter commuters, bike choice depending on weather / snow etc.

I could imagine living without 3), 5), 8) but not much else. As for usage, I ride ~20000-25000km / yr.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4199
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

None if you've ond. You should see my garage. I can't even get the bikes at the back out to ride them. I think there 20 in there or is it more. Not sure.

tabl10s
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

wintershade wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:01 am
Help. I think I need an intervention.

For those of you with OND (Obsessive N+1 Disorder), how do you think about variety of bike types in your stable? I am faced with a situation where my obsession could result in me having 1 TT and 4 race-oriented rim brake road bikes (albeit different materials). Would I be better off building a more diverse collection that would theoreticlly expand my riding possibilities (even though I currently only ride road)?

More specifics. I am an Ironman triathlete, not really a road racer. Cycling is my weakest but favorite sport (midpack cyclist, but top 10% swimmer and strong runner). I currently own:
1) Canyon Speedmax SLX 9 SL (TT bike, DuraAce Di2 w/ Zipp 808 NSWs & 404 NSWs for windy days)
2) Canyon Ultimate SLX 9 Pro (Campy Record 11, Bora 50s) -- Don't really love this bike....

I have a custom Ti Enigma on order (in a somewhat more relaxed geo) which I'm planning to build Record 12 with wheels TBD.

I got impatient waiting for the Enigma and regretted selling an old custom steel bike, so I bought a Ritchey Road Logic for a song, so am planning to build that up (Chorus 11, Zonda or Shamals TBD depending on which look better) and leave at the office for days when I can sneak in a mid-day or early evening ride.

I recently saw a Bowman Palace:R, and nearly just impulsively ordered one to leave at my summer home. Build spec TBD, but probably Potenza 11 or Rival 22 level. Woudl be fun to race around the island on a snappy Al frame (haven't ridden Al in a decade and I hear a lot has changed).

Then I got thinking... what the hell do I need 4 road bikes for. What if I scrap the Enigma (just sell the frameset, if I ever even get it), and get a kick ass MTB (note, I've never mountain biked seriously, nor even know where I'd ride it). And what if instead of the Road Logic or Bowman, I get an "Adventure" bike or "Gravel Grinder" such as to leave at the office on at the summer place.

Or maybe I need to stop buying bikes and find a good psychiatrist.....
I bought the Spanish bike to get back to riding. The Italian because I was able to name my price on the NOS frame. The 🍁ian/US was a "just because" and the last to be the built is a "why not?"(I imprinted during a Glory Cycles video).
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.0lbs/6.804kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.02lbs/5.906kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

Hexsense
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

try to differentiate your bike.
Steel -> rain bike, dress it like you sure to commute or ride in rain. Fenders permanently on.
Ti bike -> comfort on gravel, make it rugged with big tire like your road is moon surface.
You can make your aluminum Bowman a crashable and part-easily-replacable race bike. Part easily replaceable do not include any of the Campagnolo in my book.
And keep expensive component on your Canyon Ultimate as a fast group ride bike (with very low to no chance of crashing).

wintershade
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

Thanks all. This is very helpful. The good news is while I may have some kind of disorder, my presentation is at least moderate (relative to some others on this forum). Some great advice here as well with respect to how to build the stable in an intelligent (rather than somewhat impusive fashion, which is how I've proceeded to date).

I'm thinking as follows:
1) Keep the Speedmax TT bike -- which I obviously need, as it's my main race machine
2) Sell the Ultimate -- because I don't really need a high-end, all-around race bike, since I don't road race
3) Buy a 3T Exploro (or something similar) -- having a kick ass, unique gravel=ish bike might open open some fun and skill-building riding options in a way that I'd actually use (vs a MTB, where I don't even know where I'd start).
4) For the office, build up a relatively afforable aluminum racer for short/high intensity workouts -- and something that I wouldn't mind crashing if I did enter some crits or road races in off season. Maybe a Bowman Palace R, with respecably racey w/ Chorus + HED Ardennes Black wheels
5) For summer home / island bike, also something afforable, but tradtional/stylish. Maybe the Ritchy Road Logic, and certainly nothing more than Potenza + Zonda's woudl work here.
6) TBD on what to do with the Enigma Ti endurance-race bike for long rides during Ironman builds, gran fondos, etc.

One thing I'm uncertain about is bikes 4 + 5. I'm trying to figure out which makes sense to keep at the summer home (an island of coast of Maine, about a paved 5 mile loop around perimeter). I like the idea of the Road Logic, but would lighly maintained modern stainless steel bike only ridden 5-10x year hold up well to the salty air of an island? Or would the alumimum Bowman do better? The bowman is probalby a bit racier than I need for my island bike, but might be fun and lively. Frameset cost is about the same. Which bike deserves to be maybe raced?

by Weenie


spdntrxi
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I think you could combine (3) and (6) .. adventure bikes are already a degree of so more slack.. so it will be just another wheelset to buy instead of a whole bike. It will obviously help if (3) is 2x not 1x if those endurance ride/fondo have alot of climbing. I built my Parlee Zero XD with this in mind.. so I do road fondos and do things like BWR too.

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