Nitrogen vs. Nitrogen Pro vs. Aeroad

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

Cannot decide between those frames, they are priced £1,099 / £1,799 / £2,399. First one is cheapest Nitrogen, but without handlebar cockpit: https://www.merlincycles.com/argon-18-n ... 12503.html
Pro and Aeroad are supplied with cockpit, but price is much higher.

I want to build most aero and lightest possible road machine, which one to choose, Nitrogen or Aeroad? About aero, I think they are at the same level, weights are quite the same(990g vs 980g).
Nitrogen Pro should be below 840g according to manufacturer informations. It looks insane weight to me for such an aero frameset. Is it real weight? If so, stiffness won´t be affected?

If choosing Nitrogen, is it worth to pay £700 more for handlebar, 150g weight saving and (if) for higher stiffness?


BTW I will use DA 9150 Di2 groupset and Bora One 50 tubulars, so I hope I will build a bike below 6,8kg.

Thanks a lot

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

In the pro version you also get a stem and brake calipers. That could run you some money too. Are all three worth 600usd if you want a lightweight bike? Maybe not.

Aero brakes and bars/stem aren't usually very light. Have you looked at options?

Light and aero is a complicated matter. Some balance points might be better than others but the two are almost completely opposed.

A 6kg aero bike will be slower than a 7kg aero bike which will be slower than an 8kg bike. You get the idea. (some expensive exceptions)

Another thing that struck me as a bit odd is how they are bragging about the frame being Aero but with normal road fit. There is no such thing. Either the bike is aero and has a more extreme fit, or it's standard road with more upright. The frame alone won't make you more than a fraction faster. It does look cool however and for a frame with aero tubes it is indeed very light. :D

Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

,,Basic´´ Nitrogen version comes with brake calipers too. But without aerocockpit like Pro version.

Aerocockpit I´d probably change for lighter option, but it´s not neccessary, brakes won´t because they look good an Nitrogen and stopping power should be great.

I´ll build one bike on flats and hills so looking for light Aero frame. If 830g on Nitrogen Pro is real then it will be probably best option.

If this Aeroad https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/aeroa ... 0-di2.html is 7,2kg, when built with DA 9150 and Bora Ones, it should be somewhere around 6,6kg(still with 980g frame), so Nitrogen Pro should be around the same weight even with aero brakes and handlebar combo.

About Aero thing, I know i will not be as fast as on TT machine in suit, but I am building just fast and light aero bike that climbs well, nothing more :-)

Just need to know if these three frame weights are real and if stiffness is so good as reviewed.

To be honest, my heart would choose the Nitrogen Pro, no doubt about it :-) 830g(if it´s true) stiff, fast and good looking frame that climbs well is a deal...



Another thing to consider. New Nitrogen is only disc brake version, so probably no more chance to get it with rim brakes. About Aeroad I don´t know, 2019 version is still not released.

alcatraz
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You might be disappointed to hear that the reported frame weights are often unpainted and without of the necessary brackets/clamps/bearings/bolts.

To get a real weight you might have to send out an email to these manufacturers. Tell them what frame size you need as well.

Some crazy paint schemes can add 150gr, hangers/brackets/headset/clamp can be another 150gr.
Bottom bracket can be 50-100gr.

So when you put a so called "830gr" frame on a scale it might show a bit over 1kg.

Some frames are really 830gr with many of the parts on them. We won't know until we weigh it.

Don't forget the seatpost and fork which are dedicated to this frame and can't be swapped for lighter versions.

hannawald
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

If you like Nitrogen Pro than go for it. It is a great price for the frame so you don't have to have second thoughts..it is more expensive than basic option but cheaper than Canyon so you go the reasonable way while also following your heart. I can tell you that our dealer sells these frameset for more than twice the price so it is not a fake promo from Merlin Cycles..when you buy the non Pro you will have doubts, follow your heart, buy the best, enjoy and don't look back. Life is short:)

Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

alcatraz: I know it will be probably just frame without hardware. But don´t do this every manufacturer? Even if it will be 930g, it is still great weight for an aero frame. Bottom bracket is a part of groupset, so can´t be counted.
If Aeroad frame is 100g more as well, it will be around 1080g.
I know these are not climbing machines with pencil-like tubes, but aero bike still can be very light and fast in hills. And if I will spend about £4k for a bike I want it to be lightest as possible.

hannawald: I really can´t see an aero frameset that may compete with Nitrogen Pro or Aeroad in this price tag, so probably I´ll go for cheaper and more rare frame and it is a Pro :-)

Should I wait for any promotion at Merlins like Black Friday or something?

Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

I found Nitrogen Pro weight, according manufacturer information it should be like this:

Frame: 833g (includes medium frame, paint, and clearcoat; hardware [52g] not included)

Renne
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:06 pm

by Renne

I've been riding a regular Nitrogen for about 3 years now.
I will most likely be making a switch next year but have to admit that I have very much enjoyed the Nitrogen. It's not the lightest, stiffest or most aero option out there. But you can build it up to be a comfortable, race-worthy, very aero and pretty light bike.
Mine has a Dura-Ace 9000 and Easton EC90SL/Aero front end. With 20mm carbon tubular wheels I get the weight down to 7kg, not bad for a size large (58).
It's light enough to use in the mountains (I have), aero enough to win a race (I have), stiff enough to help win a peloton sprint (I have) and comfortable enough to ride over cobbles (I have...reluctantly).
Pro version should be a little lighter and a little stiffer but also a little less comfortable.

TiCass
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

Renne wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:00 am
I've been riding a regular Nitrogen for about 3 years now.
I will most likely be making a switch next year but have to admit that I have very much enjoyed the Nitrogen. It's not the lightest, stiffest or most aero option out there. But you can build it up to be a comfortable, race-worthy, very aero and pretty light bike.
Mine has a Dura-Ace 9000 and Easton EC90SL/Aero front end. With 20mm carbon tubular wheels I get the weight down to 7kg, not bad for a size large (58).
It's light enough to use in the mountains (I have), aero enough to win a race (I have), stiff enough to help win a peloton sprint (I have) and comfortable enough to ride over cobbles (I have...reluctantly).
Pro version should be a little lighter and a little stiffer but also a little less comfortable.
How is the brake performance?

Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

Renne wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:00 am
I've been riding a regular Nitrogen for about 3 years now.
I will most likely be making a switch next year but have to admit that I have very much enjoyed the Nitrogen. It's not the lightest, stiffest or most aero option out there. But you can build it up to be a comfortable, race-worthy, very aero and pretty light bike.
Mine has a Dura-Ace 9000 and Easton EC90SL/Aero front end. With 20mm carbon tubular wheels I get the weight down to 7kg, not bad for a size large (58).
It's light enough to use in the mountains (I have), aero enough to win a race (I have), stiff enough to help win a peloton sprint (I have) and comfortable enough to ride over cobbles (I have...reluctantly).
Pro version should be a little lighter and a little stiffer but also a little less comfortable.
Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your review. According to reviews, Nitrogen Pro is very stiff bike arounf BB and headtube, maybe too much in some cases. So I am a bit confused with your experience that Nitrogen is not especially stiff or aero. Maybe Pro has different and more quality carbon layup.
7kg is really nice for such an aero bike, especially in 58 size!

I´ve heard Aeroad has issues with bb or and font end stiffness, but not Nitrogen.

Renne
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:06 pm

by Renne

TiCass wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:11 pm
Renne wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:00 am
How is the brake performance?
Honestly I've never had any trouble with them braking wise. Just had a bolt that got stripped and I couldn't get it out at first.
Personally I can't tell much difference between the TRP's integrated brakes and regular calipers. Could be me but never had any problems with it for example going down some pretty big climbs in Spain and France.

Renne
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:06 pm

by Renne

Zorka wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:48 pm
Renne wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:00 am
Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your review. According to reviews, Nitrogen Pro is very stiff bike arounf BB and headtube, maybe too much in some cases. So I am a bit confused with your experience that Nitrogen is not especially stiff or aero. Maybe Pro has different and more quality carbon layup.
7kg is really nice for such an aero bike, especially in 58 size!

I´ve heard Aeroad has issues with bb or and font end stiffness, but not Nitrogen.
Mine is not a Pro but the regular version. I'm not saying it's a noodle but I was coming from a ridiculously stiff bike so it felt a little less stiff.
I've also heard that about the Pro's stiffness that's why I'm not sure the Pro version would be as comfortable as the regular version.
With my 60mm carbon tubulars the weight goes up to about 7,4kg...which is still respectable I think.
But in a smaller size you should be able to get it down to 6,8kg pretty easily.

Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

Thanks, if I may ask, what´s that stiff bike you were coming from?
I´d rather choose less comfortable and more stiff bike because of races, so Pro should be ok, there must be different carbon layup because od 150g weight loss against regular Nitrogen, so I hope stiffness will be a bit higher too.

As I said I´ve heard Canyon Aeroad has no special BB and front end stiffness, but it is ridiculously fast, so stiffness is not everything.

I will be building bike with DA 9150 groupset, 1250g Bora Ones, 105g carbon saddle so I believe it could be below 6,6-6,8kg.

alcatraz
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

If you're racing then you might be doing a mistake. Low weight feels nice but the S5s, venges, madones, propels, aeroads are possibly going to have an advantage on you.

There is nothing more sobering than a 1-2kg heavier bike on say shimano 105 dropping you.

by Weenie


Zorka
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

alcatraz: Why you think so? Because heavier bikes are faster on flats, or listed bikes above are faster or stiffer?

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post