New Cervélo Tomorrow? (1st Oct launch)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
kavlares
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:56 pm

by kavlares

IchDien wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:40 am
It can be run with a normal stem though? Pretty much every aero bike will have something proprietry...at least the seatpost for starters.
according to Cervelo there is an adapter...
even uglier...
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by Weenie


Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Monkeyfudger wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:35 am
(Although saying that, if you’re using electronic gears the S3 is likely so damn close it makes the V stem kinda pointless, the S3 is probably/maybe a better all round bike as well)
Why particularly electronic? The S3 also completely hides mechanical gear cables within the bar/stem, and does it with a proprietary cockpit system that doesn't allow any possibility of fitting a conventional stem.
On the other hand, it’s a horrible mess of proprietary bullshit that even Specialized would be proud of and is basically everything that is currently irritating about the bike industry.
Sure, but why single out this one? The S5 isn't really any different from the prevailing design priorities of other new gen aero bikes in requiring a proprietary front end in order to get the hidden cables people want. It's also not the most limiting system of the new bikes either. You can choose not to go proprietary, and you can run mechanical. Several other bikes can't facilitate either or both of those things.

Monkeyfudger
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by Monkeyfudger

IchDien wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:40 am
It can be run with a normal stem though? Pretty much every aero bike will have something proprietry...at least the seatpost for starters.
It can be run with Aksiums as well, bit pointless though eh and misses the entire point.
Karvalo wrote: Why particularly electronic? The S3 also completely hides mechanical gear cables within the bar/stem, and does it with a proprietary cockpit system that doesn't allow any possibility of fitting a conventional stem.
No one knows for sure yet but I’d be willing to bet the shift quality of the S5 trumps the S3 all day long with mechanical shifters as the V stem let’s the shift cables run through less acute angle, electronic shifting and hydro lines don’t care.

I didn’t really single it out, someone asked on the S5 thread why people hate the S5, I offered an opinion, the S5 goes balls deep on the proprietary bar and stem and although it’s semi cool it’s also about £600 to replace which is just kinda silly. I’d be willing to bet I never see one of these get raced locally which is kinda sad.

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Monkeyfudger wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:07 pm
I didn’t really single it out, someone asked on the S5 thread why people hate the S5, I offered an opinion, the S5 goes balls deep on the proprietary bar and stem
What makes it balls deep? You either have it or not, and it's far from the only new gen bike that has it.
and although it’s semi cool it’s also about £600 to replace which is just kinda silly. I’d be willing to bet I never see one of these get raced locally which is kinda sad.
If you want to run the new SystemSix the way it was designed it costs about £550. The Propel Disc cockpit costs £600. The BMC is in the same ballpark.

Why would you never see one raced? The entry price to the S5 range is £1700 less than for the new Venge, for instance. Or at the other end, you could buy the top level S5, swap the entire cockpit twice and it'd still come out cheaper than an off the peg Foil Premium (cherry picked to be fair, Scott's complete bike pricing is hilarious).

The point is any love hate relationship with the S5 for functional reasons should really be a love hate relationship with the industry wide design philosophy of the current generation of aero bikes, but it's the S5 that attracts all the flames just because it looks different.

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themidge
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by themidge

Karvalo wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:45 pm
...it's the S5 that attracts all the flames just because it looks really bad.
FTFY :wink:

In all seriousness though, the whole proprietary thing with these new aero bikes is getting a little out of hand. For people who never want to change anything about their off-the-peg bike it's fine, but for the rest of us, what are the advantages? The only good thing I can think of about the new integrated handlebar/stem/headset systems is the very slight aero advantage of hidden cables. But the more difficult maintenance, higher weight, reduced adjustability, extra faff of setting it up and cable routing, not to mention the manufacturers' reluctance to make it easy to get the right size in the first place all make it seem like the disadvantages significantly outweigh the advantages.

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kgt
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by kgt

+1

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

themidge wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:02 pm
In all seriousness though, the whole proprietary thing with these new aero bikes is getting a little out of hand.
It is, but it's what the market asked for. Remember the 2nd gen S5 took some stick when it was launched for not hiding cables or using proprietary hidden brakes (though I think it always sold pretty well). None of the big brands want to be left looking old school next to their competitors.
For people who never want to change anything about their off-the-peg bike it's fine, but for the rest of us, what are the advantages? The only good thing I can think of about the new integrated handlebar/stem/headset systems is the very slight aero advantage of hidden cables. But the more difficult maintenance, higher weight, reduced adjustability, extra faff of setting it up and cable routing, not to mention the manufacturers' reluctance to make it easy to get the right size in the first place all make it seem like the disadvantages significantly outweigh the advantages.
Yeah, but right now peak aero is the big thing. But it might not sty that way, same as the weight wars peaked a few years back with frames like the R5CA and Evo Black etc it's kind of faded away. Many companies are releasing heavier replacements of their ultra-light bikes and not many people are walking into bike shops with unlimited credit cards wanting something that weighs less than 6 kilos. Heck, I bet more people spending 10k are getting a bike that's over 7kg these days.

Maybe the same thing will happen with aero, and the importance of slick but overly complicated front ends will fade away - but people seem to like not seeing any cables. Even some all-round bikes are using proprietary systems to completely hide the cables now, like the C64 disc or BMC TeamMachine. This might be one of the things that is here to stay simply because in a few years time a bike with 6 inches of cable hanging from the bars looks old?

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themidge
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Location: underneath sweet Scottish rain

by themidge

I see what you mean, hopefully we'll get to the point where weight and aero sort of meet in the middle. At the moment a very light bike can't easily be aero and an aero bike can't easily be very light, so perhaps we'll reach a point of the best compromise.
I don't have a problem with hidden cables, it's the way they're hidden at the moment which annoys me. Complexity in bicycles is bad, I think, so I look forward to the technology becoming more streamlined, in both senses of the word :D.

biwa
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

FYI, Excel Sports are running pretty deep discount on 2018 models

robeambro
Posts: 616
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by robeambro

I'm pretty sure that in a few years, upon the launch of the next S5, Cervelo will just say the same as Specialized this year, "the old bar was ugly and compromised user-friendliness, etc etc, but with this new one.."

I think Specialized is one gen ahead of all others in terms of what customers want (decent weight, no proprietary cockpit). I think and hope that in the future most bikes will try to be like the new Izalco Max and the SL6, which try to be aero but light and offer the possibility to have an integrated cockpit or not. I also hope these bikes will come in a wider choice of geometries, as I can't really go for either, according to my fitter..

timmerrr
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 pm

by timmerrr

You guys can keep arguing about how ugly the S5D is or isn't but mine finally showed up yesterday!!! Hoping to get to the shop to do the initial unboxing tonight and will try to grab pics and weights.

jfranci3
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

kavlares wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:47 pm
IchDien wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:40 am
It can be run with a normal stem though? Pretty much every aero bike will have something proprietry...at least the seatpost for starters.
according to Cervelo there is an adapter...
even uglier...
I bet that won't look too bad.

timmerrr
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 pm

by timmerrr

Let the fun begin! Final fit on the bike saturday morning and then praying for above freezing weather saturday afternoon!

Image5479F162-5431-417A-B6E9-B2ADD1E6F670 by Tim Matchulat, on Flickr

ImageC6B978A7-08F4-4298-B184-DA1D66A6A67D by Tim Matchulat, on Flickr

timmerrr
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 pm

by timmerrr

Well the bike is done! 7.3kg or 16.13lb with pedals and the barfly mount(its a boat anchor, I seriously think it’s steel...) first ride impressions after 30 miles were pretty fantastic. I’ve been on an older madone 5.2 with Reynolds strike slg wheels and zipp areo handlebars and the way this thing holds speed at 23+mph even in a jacket and full warmers is impressive. Incredibly stiff bb but pretty comfy vertically both front and rear. Only real complaint is that it’s 31*F and I can’t ride it more.
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by Weenie


robeambro
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

timmerrr wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 am
Well the bike is done! 7.3kg or 16.13lb with pedals and the barfly mount(its a boat anchor, I seriously think it’s steel...) first ride impressions after 30 miles were pretty fantastic. I’ve been on an older madone 5.2 with Reynolds strike slg wheels and zipp areo handlebars and the way this thing holds speed at 23+mph even in a jacket and full warmers is impressive. Incredibly stiff bb but pretty comfy vertically both front and rear. Only real complaint is that it’s 31*F and I can’t ride it more.
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7.3kg? With pedals? How?

It seems very much weird. Online I can’t find any info on how much a full build should weigh.

From what you claim, seems like the S5 could be the lightest of the aero bunch, and yet Cervelo doesn’t give any info as to the weight of a full bike? Seems nonsensical.

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