aero frame query for seasoned riders / members in relation to normal rider

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
HenHarrier
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:34 am

by HenHarrier

Hey @diegogarcia - got your message but don't have enough credit in the ww bank to respond: but thanks and hope you love it!

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WorkonSunday
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:39 pm

by WorkonSunday

I notice when Bianchi launched the Aria, they hinted that rider contribute towards most of the aero resistance anyway, so rather than work on flow around each tubes, they design the bike around getting the rider to more aero position instead. and the result is a very very low (almost TT like) headtube. I quite like that idea...but I doubt my aging back can get into such aggressive aero position!

by Weenie


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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

I have some thoughts that are fairly relevant to this thread.
I live in an area with a pancake flat river floodplain to the North which extends 300kms. To the south, east and west there are around 100-150kms of cat2 and cat3 mountain passes. I have a nice climbing bike which weighs around 7kg with pedals, that can pretty easily be gotten down to about 6.5kg with a carbon railed saddle, lighter pedals, better wheels and lighter tires.

So my issue is this; do I just get a more aero helmet and get 50mm carbon rims and make my climber into a speed bike on certain days or should I go the whole n+1 and build up a total aero build where weight (so long as under 8.5kg) isn't an issue? I don't race except for a few sportives a year so I'm inclined to run clip-on TT bars and make an aero bike into mini TT kind of thing. I'm in Asia so I'm toying between Giant Propel alloy, Specialized Allez, or a Fuji Transonic framset (which I can get half price). It's an arid area and I don't need or want disk brakes.

Any of you gone the N+1 route and regretted buying an aero bike or just totally stopped using your climbing bike?

dastott
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

To answer your question, I have a 2012 SS Evo (6.5kg with clinchers or around 6kg with tubs) and a 2017 Merida Reacto 4000 (around 8.5kg with clip on and 60mm wheels, a mini TT set up). I go through phases of riding 1 bike almost exclusively. This summer was mostly flat and rolling rides on the Reacto but these last few weeks only the Evo as I get back into climbing.

FWIW, I went to test my climbing legs yesterday. 15.7km climb, 3.5% average but irregular gradients. The industry suggests I should be faster on the Reacto but yesterday I went a minute faster on the SS Evo than on the Reacto back in July. Yesterday's conditions were slightly calmer but I was somewhat fitter in the summer.

BTW, whereabouts in Asia are you? Sounds like a great location...

diegogarcia
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

HenHarrier wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:34 am
Hey @diegogarcia - got your message but don't have enough credit in the ww bank to respond: but thanks and hope you love it!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Great thanks.

will update this thread as and when.

Caveats currently are got to 40 mile mark in at 1.55 and the full 43.5 miles in 2.05 since I updated this. My issue is getting across a very bust town/city to hit the point to point fast section but it is part of the ride and I include it as relevant - town sign to town sign. I have purchased an S5 and will report back in due course. Naturally, heading into winter here in the UK so conditions might not curry favour til Spring, but if the oppurtunity presents itself weather wise I will give it a go. Had a nice purple patch of form in September according to Training Peaks data and waiting for my next form shift. The S5 is beautiful.

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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

dastott wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:06 pm
To answer your question, I have a 2012 SS Evo (6.5kg with clinchers or around 6kg with tubs) and a 2017 Merida Reacto 4000 (around 8.5kg with clip on and 60mm wheels, a mini TT set up). I go through phases of riding 1 bike almost exclusively. This summer was mostly flat and rolling rides on the Reacto but these last few weeks only the Evo as I get back into climbing.

FWIW, I went to test my climbing legs yesterday. 15.7km climb, 3.5% average but irregular gradients. The industry suggests I should be faster on the Reacto but yesterday I went a minute faster on the SS Evo than on the Reacto back in July. Yesterday's conditions were slightly calmer but I was somewhat fitter in the summer.

BTW, whereabouts in Asia are you? Sounds like a great location...
Thanks for that reply. Some serious food for thought, and yes I'm definately in the N+1 camp, but seriously considering getting some 50mm carbon clinchers and an aero frame before the only aero frame choice is disk. I think if I were back home in the UK I'd simply have one bike due to the stresses of wet weather maintenace and the very hilly topography where my family live. Where I am I think I'm lucky enough to have a choice between pan flat and mountainous so I may as well exploit it! I also do over 20,000kms a year so taking some maintenace pressure of the main bike might not be a bad idea.

I'm in China, here is the most popular local climb on Strava (that's me in 6th :wink: ) https://www.strava.com/segments/10147327, have a look browse around the area....

One area I'm concerned about is how to have an aero bar, ideally a one piece bar and stem, but still be able to have aero clip-ons.

reedplayer
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

Stueys wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:43 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:12 pm
When I add up aero gains from various sources it looks like:

50mm wheels 25 watts
frame 20 watts
bars 5 watts
aero helmet 10 watts
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/cy ... -bang-buck

Most of what I’ve seen suggests a pure aero frame makes a relatively small difference compared to kit, wheels, bars, etc, etc. Certainly I don’t think you would get 20 watts
no offend, but those numbers are complete nonsense. some people obviously are not clear about what 20w means.

dastott
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:35 pm
Some serious food for thought, and yes I'm definately in the N+1 camp, but seriously considering getting some 50mm carbon clinchers and an aero frame before the only aero frame choice is disk. I think if I were back home in the UK I'd simply have one bike due to the stresses of wet weather maintenace and the very hilly topography where my family live. Where I am I think I'm lucky enough to have a choice between pan flat and mountainous so I may as well exploit it! I also do over 20,000kms a year so taking some maintenace pressure of the main bike might not be a bad idea.

I'm in China, here is the most popular local climb on Strava (that's me in 6th :wink: ) https://www.strava.com/segments/10147327, have a look browse around the area....

One area I'm concerned about is how to have an aero bar, ideally a one piece bar and stem, but still be able to have aero clip-ons.
Looks a cool area. I am not far away in Japan. I bought my Reacto because I broke an Sram Red RD on my SS Evo on a commute to work on a wet day. Not regretted it for a second. My aero bike doubles as a winter bike/commuter because it 'only' has Shimano 105 groupset whereas the SS Evo runs Sram Red (but now with a Force RD). No need for a lighter groupset for a bike mostly used for flat rides, and I got a good deal on last year's model. I have 60mm Farsports clinchers on it too. Might as well go at least 60mm for an aero bike, although I have had a few niggles with that wheelset. I do around 15,000kms a year so it's good to spread the load between 2 road bikes.

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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

dastott wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:05 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:35 pm
Some serious food for thought, and yes I'm definately in the N+1 camp, but seriously considering getting some 50mm carbon clinchers and an aero frame before the only aero frame choice is disk. I think if I were back home in the UK I'd simply have one bike due to the stresses of wet weather maintenace and the very hilly topography where my family live. Where I am I think I'm lucky enough to have a choice between pan flat and mountainous so I may as well exploit it! I also do over 20,000kms a year so taking some maintenace pressure of the main bike might not be a bad idea.

I'm in China, here is the most popular local climb on Strava (that's me in 6th :wink: ) https://www.strava.com/segments/10147327, have a look browse around the area....

One area I'm concerned about is how to have an aero bar, ideally a one piece bar and stem, but still be able to have aero clip-ons.
Looks a cool area. I am not far away in Japan. I bought my Reacto because I broke an Sram Red RD on my SS Evo on a commute to work on a wet day. Not regretted it for a second. My aero bike doubles as a winter bike/commuter because it 'only' has Shimano 105 groupset whereas the SS Evo runs Sram Red (but now with a Force RD). No need for a lighter groupset for a bike mostly used for flat rides, and I got a good deal on last year's model. I have 60mm Farsports clinchers on it too. Might as well go at least 60mm for an aero bike, although I have had a few niggles with that wheelset. I do around 15,000kms a year so it's good to spread the load between 2 road bikes.
Similar to me, I've got a Kuota KOM Air frameset running SRAM Force 22 and lightweight DT Swiss Alloy clincher wheels.
I was thinking about running an aero bike with Ultegra or maybe 105. I was wondering about how deep to go on the wheelset as having another good bike means its so easy to leave the aero bike at home on a windy day. 60mm or deeper?

dastott
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Well, I live on the coast and it can get pretty windy. TBH, most of the time I stick a black box section alloy clincher on the front but always leave the 60mm on the back. 60mm front only comes out for special occasions. Another reason I do this is because the braking on the 60mm front isn’t great compared to alloy. If buying again I might go for 80mm on the back but I sometimes do some climbing on this aero bike and the 60mm wheelset is around 1460g.

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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

dastott wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:20 am
Well, I live on the coast and it can get pretty windy. TBH, most of the time I stick a black box section alloy clincher on the front but always leave the 60mm on the back. 60mm front only comes out for special occasions. Another reason I do this is because the braking on the 60mm front isn’t great compared to alloy. If buying again I might go for 80mm on the back but I sometimes do some climbing on this aero bike and the 60mm wheelset is around 1460g.
I live a fair way inland, so the wind mostly isn't so strong, but there are windy days where I'd more than happy to be on my climbing bike. Would you get 80mm rear 60mm front in my situation or go with a different combo?

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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

double post pls delete
Last edited by Lewn777 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

dastott
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

I haven't actually ridden 80mm myself but if I didn't live in a windy area then I would be tempted. Depth is king, as Hambini shows. 80mm rear and 60mm front sounds good. As for aero handlebars, an entry level aero bike like mine doesn't have them but that suits me as I just leave standard clip on bars on all the time. I also changed the stem to go longer and lower, things which are tricky do with integrated bars.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2063
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

The less trail your bike have, the more affected steering will be on deeper section wheels.
This is often never mentioned talking stability of the bike.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
Paduano Racing Fidia
Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire

Stueys
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

reedplayer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:53 pm
Stueys wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:43 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:12 pm
When I add up aero gains from various sources it looks like:

50mm wheels 25 watts
frame 20 watts
bars 5 watts
aero helmet 10 watts
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/cy ... -bang-buck

Most of what I’ve seen suggests a pure aero frame makes a relatively small difference compared to kit, wheels, bars, etc, etc. Certainly I don’t think you would get 20 watts
no offend, but those numbers are complete nonsense. some people obviously are not clear about what 20w means.
No offence taken but clarify which part you are disagreeing with?

by Weenie


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