Screw you Donald Trump (alloy pricing)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
jeepntrek
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:23 pm

by jeepntrek

MikeD wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:22 pm
mattr wrote:Unfortunately, Trumps politics, and the fallout from them, is everywhere. And it's going to get worse.
Stock market is the highest it's ever been, unimployment is at record lows, my investments are up, my federal taxes are lower... Go Trump go!
placing your bottom line above everything (morals, relationships, children, the planet) is exactly why America is rightfully seen as the piece of shit is has proudly shown itself to be. You, sir or ma’am, are wholly part of the problem. Congratulate yourself some more.🤦‍♂️

by Weenie


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LouisN
Posts: 2451
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:50 pm
Gentlemen (and ladies if any), I encourage you to leave the politics out of this forum. Now OTOH, the impact of economic policy on bike pricing is relevant. On that note, has the US government not introduced a 25% tariff on aluminum imported from Canada? That would only make frames in the US more expensive. Bicycles imported into Canada (from Asia) should not be affected by any US tariffs.

For those lacking in a basic understanding of economics, tariffs on imported goods are generally shunned by proponents of a free market capitalist system because they result in higher consumer costs. Not just because the tariffs add cost but also because domestic producers are now free to raise their prices to match the tariff inflated imports while still remaining competitive. Being a weightweenie is partly about buying high end gear from all over the world. Any and all trade barriers increase the costs of our hobby.
This.
And the prices established by the manufacturers are usually based on strong currency, like the US dollar or the euro. The very poor performance of the canadian dollar for the last 3-4 years has seen the prices go wayyy up in canadian dollars. 2010-2011 was the best time for a canadian to buy imported stuff, as the canadian dollar was on par with the US dollar.
I really miss that time,..... :cry:

Louis :)

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Still cheaper to order from overseas in general.. example Super Record EPS from overseas is still approx $1000 cheaper!
Funny to see Specialized pricing around the world, the dollar conversion does not follow at all with the market:
US SWorks Venge frame price - $5500 USD converted to Cdn dollars its $7200, but it retails for $6500 here
Similarly, looking at the same framset from the UK, its 3500 British pound, which converts to $6000 Cdn, or only $4600 USD!

Catagory6
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

Phuddy wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:33 pm
I guess I could just toss the occasional “nice bike, man” and “I think 11-28 is the best option too” comments on a few threads to get my post count up before I really say anything. Thanks for the warm welcome though.
you didn't really enter into this forum with a bike-specific post, did you?

bitching about aluminum frame pricing is one thing; needlessly forcing politics into a 3rd post, is your own choice, and is an agenda.

there are quite literally hundreds of thousands of purely non-political posts with which you could have entered this forum. I will give you just a handful of examples:

- i'm experiencing a very weird "clunk" from my drive-side crank arm, only in the 12-o'clock position. it isn't a tick, or a creak, it is specifically a "clunk". i'm using such-and-such cranks, with such-and-such pedals. what might i look for first, before driving an hour to my local bike shop?

- i just bought a such-and-such frame, its my first with a PF30 bottom bracket. i have loads of experience installing english-style bottom brackets. are there any tips, or tricks to installing these? i've read numerous places where people say "use grease", "don't use grease", "use loc-tite", "don't use loc-tite".
what's the definitive solution?

- I just found an amazing deal on such-and-such frameset, does anybody have any input? what's your experience?

- jeez louise, my such-and-such rear wheelset feels sluggish, has anybody ever gone from such-and-such wheelset, to such-and-such wheelset specifically?

- goodness gracious me!!! it seems like the price of aluminum frames is going thru the roof, i wonder what that could be about. does anybody have any REAL, NON-POLITICIZED information?

see? it wasn't so hard, was it?
your choice; don't blame us for your cold reception
Last edited by Catagory6 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/cycling ... -on-bikes/

I encourage everyone to listen to the recent CyclingTips podcast. The relevant part is the final third of the episode. The tariffs are very, very bad and the US isn’t in a position to push China around in the global economy. Punishing China won’t bring manufacturing back to a post-industrial US...that’s akin to coal miners being hopeful for “clean coal” jobs to start appearing. It’s a fool’s errand. The bike industry is going to be hit particularly hard.

In the meantime, big corps try to maintain their gross margins and net profits by making life worse downstream (bike shops, consumers.)

MikeD
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

jeepntrek wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:22 pm
mattr wrote:Unfortunately, Trumps politics, and the fallout from them, is everywhere. And it's going to get worse.
Stock market is the highest it's ever been, unimployment is at record lows, my investments are up, my federal taxes are lower... Go Trump go!
placing your bottom line above everything (morals, relationships, children, the planet) is exactly why America is rightfully seen as the piece of shit is has proudly shown itself to be. You, sir or ma’am, are wholly part of the problem. Congratulate yourself some more.🤦‍♂️
Aren't there any mods on this forum? You should be banned.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:37 am

Aren't there any mods on this forum? You should be banned.

Your reply was devoid of any bike related discussion and indicated political bias, so let’s not be hasty.

And in the meantime Anta (a Chinese sports brand) wants to buy Amer (Mavic, ENVE, Arcteryx, Suunto, Precor. etc.)
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Catagory6
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:58 am
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/cycling ... -on-bikes/

I encourage everyone to listen to the recent CyclingTips podcast. The relevant part is the final third of the episode. The tariffs are very, very bad and the US isn’t in a position to push China around in the global economy. Punishing China won’t bring manufacturing back to a post-industrial US...that’s akin to coal miners being hopeful for “clean coal” jobs to start appearing. It’s a fool’s errand. The bike industry is going to be hit particularly hard.

In the meantime, big corps try to maintain their gross margins and net profits by making life worse downstream (bike shops, consumers.)
why would you want to foist a podcast, with an obvious lefty/commie-political agenda, into a site that is decidedly NON-POLITICAL?

Catagory6
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:51 am
MikeD wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:37 am

Aren't there any mods on this forum? You should be banned.

Your reply was devoid of any bike related discussion and indicated political bias, so let’s not be hasty.

And in the meantime Anta (a Chinese sports brand) wants to buy Amer (Mavic, ENVE, Arcteryx, Suunto, Precor. etc.)
where is there any indication of the poster's political tastes? please point them out to me, please be extremely specific, i'm really REALLY stupid

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Catagory6 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:53 am

why would you want to foist a podcast, with an obvious lefty/commie-political agenda, into a site that is decidedly NON-POLITICAL?
CyclingTips’s hosts have been pretty neutral. They did not support the boycott of Vista Outdoor brands for example. Also this is a discussion with Mr. Frothingham from Bicycle Retailer, a publication that represents the the National Bicycle Dealer Association. Plenty of members are conservative, close to half...the tariffs hurt them too. Why are you so afraid of the message being spread in the podcast? It is literally talking about the pure business repercussions that will take effect.

Maybe listen to what Frothingham has to say instead of ignoring it.

Catagory6
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:00 am
Catagory6 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:53 am

why would you want to foist a podcast, with an obvious lefty/commie-political agenda, into a site that is decidedly NON-POLITICAL?
CyclingTips’s hosts have been pretty neutral. They did not support the boycott of Vista Outdoor brands for example. Also this is a discussion with Mr. Frothingham from Bicycle Retailer, a publication that represents the the National Bicycle Dealer Association. Plenty of members are conservative, close to half...the tariffs hurt them too. Why are you so afraid of the message being spread in the podcast? It is literally talking about the pure business repercussions that will take effect.
sorry, i was trying to be satirical, based on the OP's obvious troll-post. regardless, the one thing i appreciate about this forum is the decidedly non-political quality it seems to have.
it was rather harsh, and reactionary. i am submerged in political bias nearly every waking moment. WW is a refuge i guess. a place that doesn't sicken me.
i think OP has made his mark in other forums as well.

i'm exiting this thread, to save myself from further embarrassment. cheers

Bordcla
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 pm
The tariffs are going to hurt the LBS and small fabricators more than the consumer. Other than complete bikes, we’ll still be able to order most of our components from shops like Wiggle, Merlin, Starbike, etc. tariff free. But yes, bicycle prices are going to go up, a lot.

The tariffs are already hurting. We have to redo our balconies here, and none of the vendors will honour quotes from a few months ago. Prices have gone up significantly (20%) and all of them attribute that to higher aluminum prices because of the ongoing US vs everybody trade war. I'm not surprised to see the price of alloy bike models being higher.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bordcla wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:40 am

The tariffs are already hurting. We have to redo our balconies here, and none of the vendors will honour quotes from a few months ago. Prices have gone up significantly (20%) and all of them attribute that to higher aluminum prices because of the ongoing US vs everybody trade war. I'm not surprised to see the price of alloy bike models being higher.
Yep, American suppliers have increased their prices on aluminum billet by about 20%...

The cost of doing business will raise the price of all products from the bicycle brands, even though most of their carbon bikes are being made in Taiwan and not China. In the end, the numbers that matter are gross margins and net profit. Even though not a single component on a Venge or Madone is made in China, the price of those bikes is expected to go up around 10%.

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otoman
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

Trump is just living up to his campaign promises to protect American manufacturing jobs and to do what he can to bring them back on shore. Those promises are arguably what got him elected by swaying enough of the blue collar vote in the swing states. Is it the best economic tactic for a purely free market? No, but protectionism is counter to globalism and an open border policy.

Does he care about some bitter Canadian with an opinion about American politics? Nope.

All the more reason to buy carbon!
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

by Weenie


MikeD
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Bordcla wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 pm
The tariffs are going to hurt the LBS and small fabricators more than the consumer. Other than complete bikes, we’ll still be able to order most of our components from shops like Wiggle, Merlin, Starbike, etc. tariff free. But yes, bicycle prices are going to go up, a lot.

The tariffs are already hurting. We have to redo our balconies here, and none of the vendors will honour quotes from a few months ago. Prices have gone up significantly (20%) and all of them attribute that to higher aluminum prices because of the ongoing US vs everybody trade war. I'm not surprised to see the price of alloy bike models being higher.
Just as a counterpoint, contractors already have more business than they can handle and are jacking up prices simply because they can make more money; the simple law of supply and demand. Most of the unfortunate people whose homes burned down in Santa Rosa, can't afford to rebuild supposedly because they didn't have enough insurance to cover the costs. The real reason is that contractors have raised their prices, and this was before tariffs went into effect. Maybe the 20% increase you are seeing is because of material costs, maybe not, or not all of it. Material costs are not the major cost of a job anyway.

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