Light weight goes down - aero goes up

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
BagelMaster
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by BagelMaster

bremerradkurier wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:16 pm
VTR1000SP2 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:29 pm
Phuddy wrote:My big problem with this, is that there is no budget Aero bike to speak of; what’s the Everyman to ride??
Cervelo S2, Bianchi Aria, Ribble makes one, Giant Propel.. are these still out of reach?


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Fuji Transonic and Ridley Noah as well.
Unfortunately, it looks like the Transonic is going to get a price bump this year with the update to something more similar to the Supreme. I was super gung ho on the Transonic because I could score one with Di2 and disc brakes for not too much, but that model looks like it'll be in the mid 4000s or in the 5000s for a complete bike.

https://challenge-sports.de/product/fuj ... dell-2019/

Performance Bike has the SL 2.3 at $3000 though, which is not a bad price, but non-aero. Aero commands the big bucks nowadays.

by Weenie


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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

dgasmd wrote:Yes, aero is real, weight is good uphill and accelerating, aero wheels are nice, aero bikes look cool, WW like to tinker, and we still just buy bikes based on looks, vanity, and fashion!!
None of this matter, unless you race your bikes.
I rarely see aero bikes, even in Cat Pro/1/2 scene.
Adoption rate is slow for competitive riders. Majority still on rim brakes, semi-aero frames, semi-aero wheels. In contrast, adoption rate is high for riders that focus on aesthetics. They contribute to revenue of aero frames, deep dish wheels, aero helmets and boutique WW parts.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

NCNCA has plenty of aero bikes at the very top of Cat 1/2, the Chris Riekert and Robert Skinner level guys. I think TCB pretty much exclusively race on aero bikes as well.

eins4eins
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by eins4eins

mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:23 am
I rarely see aero bikes, even in Cat Pro/1/2 scene.
Adoption rate is slow for competitive riders. Majority still on rim brakes, semi-aero frames, semi-aero wheels.
majority of competitive riders has to pay for their bikes themself and the risk of crashing a 10k$ bike isn't worth the two watts a top end aero frame might save you, in the five minutes you spent out front.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

eins4eins wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:23 am
I rarely see aero bikes, even in Cat Pro/1/2 scene.
Adoption rate is slow for competitive riders. Majority still on rim brakes, semi-aero frames, semi-aero wheels.
majority of competitive riders has to pay for their bikes themself and the risk of crashing a 10k$ bike isn't worth the two watts a top end aero frame might save you, in the five minutes you spent out front.
Is it worth spending 10k on aero bike, per your comment for someone who is not racing? I guess some get their significance to look fast and chase PR’s on Strava. Crashes are inevitable whether you train solo or make moves in the peloton.
I purposefully train on heavy steel frame. You know what they say “Train heavy and race light”.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

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dgasmd
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by dgasmd

mpulsiv wrote:
dgasmd wrote:Yes, aero is real, weight is good uphill and accelerating, aero wheels are nice, aero bikes look cool, WW like to tinker, and we still just buy bikes based on looks, vanity, and fashion!!
None of this matter, unless you race your bikes.
I rarely see aero bikes, even in Cat Pro/1/2 scene.
Adoption rate is slow for competitive riders. Majority still on rim brakes, semi-aero frames, semi-aero wheels. In contrast, adoption rate is high for riders that focus on aesthetics. They contribute to revenue of aero frames, deep dish wheels, aero helmets and boutique WW parts.
Exactly my point. Even further, those that race, even competitively, are not making a living from it nor really making it because of the $10-15K aero advantages. So, even those guys in my mind are simply better or fitter or faster weekend warriors. In the end, it’s all about getting what we think is pretty in our eyes. The rest is just crap to justify it to ourselves

bilwit
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by bilwit

dgasmd wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:00 pm
mpulsiv wrote:
dgasmd wrote:Yes, aero is real, weight is good uphill and accelerating, aero wheels are nice, aero bikes look cool, WW like to tinker, and we still just buy bikes based on looks, vanity, and fashion!!
None of this matter, unless you race your bikes.
I rarely see aero bikes, even in Cat Pro/1/2 scene.
Adoption rate is slow for competitive riders. Majority still on rim brakes, semi-aero frames, semi-aero wheels. In contrast, adoption rate is high for riders that focus on aesthetics. They contribute to revenue of aero frames, deep dish wheels, aero helmets and boutique WW parts.
Exactly my point. Even further, those that race, even competitively, are not making a living from it nor really making it because of the $10-15K aero advantages. So, even those guys in my mind are simply better or fitter or faster weekend warriors. In the end, it’s all about getting what we think is pretty in our eyes. The rest is just crap to justify it to ourselves
don't race what you can't replace.. I'm sure if everyone had the choice (and the money), they would happily race the best aero bike :wink:

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themidge
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by themidge

Topic title: Light weight goes down - aero goes up

What are we all complaining about anyway? :wink:

Lieblingsleguan
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by Lieblingsleguan

kgt wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:38 pm
BW the Sagan paradigm is really interesting because the watts this guy wins by his venge (first year he decided to race on an aero frame) are probably lost by his... beard. I really do not think he gives a damn about aerodynamics.
His beard is shielded by his face as opposed to his legs, torso, arms, head, frame and wheels. Which is why he is using aero gear on all those parts of the system. Unsurprisingly, a beard has shown no effect in the windtunnel.

It is also plain wrong that this is his first year on an aero frame. Ever since he's been racing on Specialized Bikes, he has been using the aero frame option on flat stages and the tarmac on hilly and mountain stages (exception being the cobbled classics for obvious reasons). When he was racing for Cannondale, he used 81mm wheels on flat stages.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Adam Hansen has a wicked position just to be as aero as possible.
Even claims his long cranks also gives him an aero benefit aswell as leverage.
But he didn't care for the Noah, instead he went Helium SLX.
He's into both aero and WW:ism.
Isn't it more interesting with riders wallking their own way instead of what the sponsors want?
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

He’d be better off aerodynamically with shorter cranks than the 180mm he’s using now. Shorter cranks means his knees will be lower at the top of the pedal stroke. Lower knees means he can lower his saddle, reducing his cross-section.

Yes, this is somewhat counter-intuitive. We’ve been told that shorter cranks means you should raise your saddle to preserve certain knee angles at full extension. This can be mitigated somewhat by increasing setback.

romanmoser
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by romanmoser

He has used a little the aero noah disc on the Giro on a few stages ...

I think it's more position related ( the noah can't have a as forward position due to the seatpost seatback )
Where he can use a inversed seatback post on the helium to be as forward as possible

Imaking20
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by Imaking20

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:35 am
He’d be better off aerodynamically with shorter cranks than the 180mm he’s using now. Shorter cranks means his knees will be lower at the top of the pedal stroke. Lower knees means he can lower his saddle, reducing his cross-section.

Yes, this is somewhat counter-intuitive. We’ve been told that shorter cranks means you should raise your saddle to preserve certain knee angles at full extension. This can be mitigated somewhat by increasing setback.
Except flat back = aero. And lowering his saddle does not mean he'd also be lowering his head, so not sure how much (if any) positive effect that would have on his cross section. He's still going to be a big guy on a bike...

This is actually the first time I've heard someone mention knee position in the pedal stroke in an aero discussion (assuming the person was not riding with their knees splayed out - which he doesn't)
Last edited by Imaking20 on Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Well, he still rides a lighter bike in aero position instead of an aero frame.
Yes, i noted the remark on his seatpost and saddle forward.
But i read Adam is also a bit obsessed with weight.
I think he's interesting mostly because he seems to do what he is convinced is best, not what he's told to do or ride.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Imaking20 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:45 pm

Except flat back = aero. And lowering his saddle does not mean he'd also be lowering his head, so not sure how much (if any) positive effect that would have on his cross section. He's still going to be a big guy on a bike...

This is actually the first time I've heard someone mention knee position in the pedal stroke in an aero discussion (assuming the person was not riding with their knees splayed out - which he doesn't)
Nothing is preventing him from keeping a flat back with shorter cranks. Also the ideal aero position is a slightly sloped back, but I get your meaning.

If this is the first time you’ve heard people talking about short cranks for aerodynamics, you haven’t been visiting forums like SlowTwitch. Some of them run 145/150mm cranks because it lets them get their whole upper body lower.

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