SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
DaMaDo
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:42 am

by DaMaDo

Bike shop has had my Focus Paralane for over 2 weeks now trying to figure out how to get the etap FD working. They said they are ordering angled spacers to fit between the FD and braze mount to see if that will work. Focus offers a package with etap, so my frame should be compatible.

gurk700
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Some bikes don't seem to love etap. I had issues on my 2015 Cervelo R5. Worst offender was the fact that 50/34 rings didn't work at all. Then once I swapped to 52/36 it was better but still had chaindrop issues.
One weird thing I found is that shifting with SOME pressure on pedals performed better (guessing chain slack issue) than the usual recommended smooth pedal stroke.

I now have a disc etap setup on my BMC Roadmachine with 0 issues.

by Weenie


BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

I am sure Etap 12 AXS will cure this problem for everyone. It's only a $4K plus repair. It still blows my mind that these components have so many fundamental flaws and folks are queueing up to get more of it.

Sock3t
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:20 pm
I am sure Etap 12 AXS will cure this problem for everyone. It's only a $4K plus repair. It still blows my mind that these components have so many fundamental flaws and folks are queueing up to get more of it.
I bought R9150 instead.

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Sock3t wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:20 pm
I am sure Etap 12 AXS will cure this problem for everyone. It's only a $4K plus repair. It still blows my mind that these components have so many fundamental flaws and folks are queueing up to get more of it.
I bought R9150 instead.
You won't regret that choice, I am sure.

morganb
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:52 am
Sock3t wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:20 pm
I am sure Etap 12 AXS will cure this problem for everyone. It's only a $4K plus repair. It still blows my mind that these components have so many fundamental flaws and folks are queueing up to get more of it.
I bought R9150 instead.
You won't regret that choice, I am sure.
road.cc review of the AXS groupset noted multiple dropped chains on the press ride.

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

morganb wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:10 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:52 am
Sock3t wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:20 pm
I am sure Etap 12 AXS will cure this problem for everyone. It's only a $4K plus repair. It still blows my mind that these components have so many fundamental flaws and folks are queueing up to get more of it.
I bought R9150 instead.
You won't regret that choice, I am sure.
road.cc review of the AXS groupset noted multiple dropped chains on the press ride.
And that's with actual SRAM tech folks on hand to setup and tune the bikes before handing them out to the journos. Hmmm...

morganb
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:51 pm
morganb wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:10 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:52 am
Sock3t wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:58 am


I bought R9150 instead.
You won't regret that choice, I am sure.
road.cc review of the AXS groupset noted multiple dropped chains on the press ride.
And that's with actual SRAM tech folks on hand to setup and tune the bikes before handing them out to the journos. Hmmm...
Not only that but the full SRAM "ecosystem", chainrings, chain, bikes/wheels with proper chainline.

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2223
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

morganb wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:51 pm
morganb wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:10 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:52 am


You won't regret that choice, I am sure.
road.cc review of the AXS groupset noted multiple dropped chains on the press ride.
And that's with actual SRAM tech folks on hand to setup and tune the bikes before handing them out to the journos. Hmmm...
Not only that but the full SRAM "ecosystem", chainrings, chain, bikes/wheels with proper chainline.
It's funny. I have read quite a few of the reports on the new Etap AXS in most of the major web outlets and the road.cc is the first mention I have seen of this recurring issue. I guess they all feel the need to write glowing 'gee-whiz it's got 12' reviews to justify their trips out to the testing locales and the hospitality they get.

DaMaDo
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:42 am

by DaMaDo

If the shop can't get my etap FD to work well, I'll contact bikecloset and see if they will take it back then switch to DA 9150/9170 setup.

If they won't take it back, I'll get a dual chain catcher

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3292
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

That chain-catcher won’t do shit. Watch how the chain drops in a stand and you’ll realize why.

alcatraz
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

DaMaDo wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:07 am
If the shop can't get my etap FD to work well, I'll contact bikecloset and see if they will take it back then switch to DA 9150/9170 setup.

If they won't take it back, I'll get a dual chain catcher
Are you putting load on your crank when you get it to drop the chain? I suggest not to do that, and set the max limit a _tiny_ bit closer every time it happens. With tiny I mean like 2-3/60th of a turn.

How many teeth difference is there between your small and big chainring?

How big a guy are you?

Have you inspected the fd braze on tab and chainrings for play/flex? Just being new and that an lbs installed it is not a guarantee that everything is in order.

Sram does on average not have the same front shift quality as shimano. If you come from shimano you might be used to more force on the pedals while upshifting.

One of my larger friends rides only shimano ultegra/duraace and is complaining about increasing amount of chaindrops. And there is nothing wrong with his setup. After much tweaking it boils down to this. He has gotten used to shifting under load ever since he got into cycling. He hasn't dropped chains very much because he wasn't as strong as he is today. He has broken several chains and is able to eject the chain off the chainring without shifting. He has bent chainrings so the teeth point sideways. The solution (kind of) was to learn how to shift and improve pedaling technique. Up the cadence and this kind of stuff. Even out the power stoke. If this guy decides to break a chain he could at any moment but following good practices allows him to ride reliably, fast and safely.

I'm just hoping that his training program never suggests low cadence sprinting or something because that'll be a lot of work for his mechanic.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2674
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Two things i have been thinking of, they are mentioned here but anyways.

Chain slack
To fast to pedal, when chain move to next chainring.

My Shimano Di2 had a problem with throwing chain off at the inside on my gravel bike.
Like alot, every ride and several times.
I drilled a new hole in the rear derailleur and increased tensin of chain.
I also bought a custom made spider, which moved chainline outboards 46.5 - 47mm)
After that no chains have jumped at all. Shifting is great both rear and front.

The new AXS RD have a system that hold the chain under more tension.

To the dude angling his FD. Perhaps this helps the front shifting not to throw chain at the outside, but since the FD is angled, how about the inboard shifting?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3292
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:21 am
Two things i have been thinking of, they are mentioned here but anyways.

Chain slack
To fast to pedal, when chain move to next chainring.

My Shimano Di2 had a problem with throwing chain off at the inside on my gravel bike.
Like alot, every ride and several times.
I drilled a new hole in the rear derailleur and increased tensin of chain.
I also bought a custom made spider, which moved chainline outboards 46.5 - 47mm)
After that no chains have jumped at all. Shifting is great both rear and front.

The new AXS RD have a system that hold the chain under more tension.

To the dude angling his FD. Perhaps this helps the front shifting not to throw chain at the outside, but since the FD is angled, how about the inboard shifting?

Too much conjecture from someone unfamiliar with the issue. This isn't about chain tension. The most common occurence of the the "thrown chain" is when the chain is sitting in the middle of the cassette, because this leaves a bigger gap between the outer plates and the FD cage plate. In the middle of the cassette there is going to be sufficient tension in the drivetrain unless your chain is comically long.

The eTap FD issue is almost exclusively a thrown chain on the outside. It's easy to set a low limit with a Yaw FD that prevents inside drops. It isn't easy to set a high limit because the FD will overshift regardless of that setting.

You also are confused about the purpose of the angled shims. They don't change the yaw angle of the FD. They change the pitch angle so that the tail of the cage is lower. These spacers are typically used on some TT bikes that use compact or semi-compact chainrings due to weird (rearward) braze-on tab placement. Moving the tail lower helps the curvature of the FD cage better follow the circumference of the compact chainrings. Sometimes they are used with oval rings because that requires the FD to be mounted higher...again to help bring the tail of the cage down.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2674
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Aha, so you mean those shims that are same as with Rotor QXL rings!?
We talk of movement in opposite directions.

I have those shims and they did not affect shifting (on my frames) at all. One bike 73.5 degree seat mast tube angle, the other 72.5.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


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