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Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:05 am
by Nefarious86
For the $ the chain throws shouldnt be something you "live with"...

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:19 am
by DaMaDo
I don't see any firmware updates fixing this either. I bought the whole set and there was no dongle. I asked the bike shop (bikecloset) about it and they called SRAM and were told that there are no firmware updates planned for etap so they aren't including the dongle anymore.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:19 am
by Weenie

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:06 am
by TobinHatesYou
NickJHP, it definitely is the overshift action and it's pisspoor that they won't be fixing it with a firmware update. It's clearly something that can be done...they've just chosen not to. My setup isn't throwing the chain anymore but it was basically random luck that I set it up perfectly. You basically need the perfect yaw angle, the perfect high limit and a slightly higher than spec cage height...and then pray.

Setting the high limit to barely rub or almost rub the chain makes shifting up to the big ring hesitant when the chain is on the larger to middle cogs. If the shift isn't completed during the overshift, then you have to toggle the upshift again or you just grind the chain against the cage and big ring as it fails to get picked up by the shift pins.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:00 am
by alcatraz
The quality of your chainrings/crank/bb plays a big role in shift quality.

If there is any play or flex it will be very troublesome to upshift. So inspect what you have there and give it a good tug to see if things are moving where they shouldn't.

Maybe it's a bad bb or loose chainring bolts, or a bent chainring, flexy spider/bolts or something...

I've seen ultralight setups work better than original setups and I think it has to do with this. Sure they flex more but if tolerances are in check it can still work.

Shimano shifts amazingly well and you can see that their crank preload system together with hollow chainrings results in extremely low flex at the teeth of the chainrings.

Lets say you got a gxp crank and have an nds bearing with a bit of sideplay. Either from wear or lack of bearing retension. It will impact your front shifting negatively.

It'd be ironic if upgrading to a gxp ceramic bottom bracket messed up upshifting just because ceramic bearings more often have more play.

/a

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:12 pm
by DaMaDo
My frame has only 40 miles on it and just put a brand new full Red/etap setup on it.

I dropped it off at the LBS to see if they can make it work.

If not, I might try bending the FD cage to make it slightly narrower.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:41 am
by wheelsONfire
DaMaDo wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:12 pm
My frame has only 40 miles on it and just put a brand new full Red/etap setup on it.

I dropped it off at the LBS to see if they can make it work.

If not, I might try bending the FD cage to make it slightly narrower.
Don't do that!!!
If you can't get it to shift, it's certainly not the cage that is the problem. If the cage would crack, you have zero warranty and you'd be forced to buy a new FD.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:39 pm
by Sock3t
Any reason to NOT buy etap this month? I get 12 speed is on the horizon, but why should I care for 12 speed over 11?

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:36 pm
by Jugi
Right now the ability to customize the shifting logic of the 2gen system seems like a valid reason to purchase that, if one feels the need for the option. Ergonomics and overall performance seems to end up very close to the original (which doesn't seem to receive user upgradebale firmware or extra features now or in the future).


Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:52 pm
by Seedster
I think eTap may be announced shortly. I would certainly be holding off for 12 unless you are offered a great discount that will match future NOS discounts.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:55 pm
by salmonbun
Sock3t wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:39 pm
Any reason to NOT buy etap this month? I get 12 speed is on the horizon, but why should I care for 12 speed over 11?
I would hold off on buying etap if you have interest in 12 speed. Etap is great but has a lot of silly issues i've had to deal with since owning it. Like my crank arm rubbing the front derailleur and SRAM saying "Yep, it does that"

12 speed is a complete revision of old etap, hopefully remedying these issues.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:06 pm
by izza
Current FD’s are already 12 speed.

The motor is the same for both so that means setting up an 11 speed arrangement is very low tolerance. You shouldn’t live with jumping chains but setting up will take the (shop) mechanic longer as it comes down to 1/12 turns of Allen keys to iteratively get the best position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:33 pm
by wheelsONfire
Question is what the new 12/24 speed version will cost?
It seems resonable to wait, as per rumour, it's soon due to a release.
I bought Etap in the summer, it was a good price and easy move between wheels/ freehubs etc.

What is most interesting isn't the extra gear, it's the ease (if it will be) the setup of the FD, the interaction between crankarm and FD cage.
Also curious on the new crank and powermeter (interchangeable spider?).

Another question come down to freehub body for 12 speed. At the moment Shimano and Sram uses same, which i find better than a possibly 2 new standards.
I guess when Shimano will jump 12 speed, it will not use same freehub body as Sram.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:37 pm
by TobinHatesYou
Shimano will undoubtedly use a version of Micro Spline that is 1.8mm wider than the MTB one currently available.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:42 pm
by wheelsONfire
I have thought about possible software upgrade feature of current Etap, but if thinking about FD for instance, it's a YAW design, not as Shimanos FD's.
How would the YAW feature be updated?
By design, YAW it's not like Shimano (no matter if we talk mechanical or Di2) as we all know.

What is needed, as per update on the RD?

Shifting logic, what is needed on Etap?

Again, by design it shifts like mechanical and what is a problem with that?

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:47 pm
by wheelsONfire
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:37 pm
Shimano will undoubtedly use a version of Micro Spline that is 1.8mm wider than the MTB one currently available.
It seems the standards increase. Is this the modern era of bikes, more standards, more being "locked up" on specifics?
Just like the integration of frames and components.
Personally i don't like this development.

Re: SRAM Red eTap FD chain drop

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:47 pm
by Weenie