Campag EPS + BB30 + Ultra Torque - options?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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pooka
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am

by pooka

I'm trying to install a Campagnolo EPS groupset on a frame with BB30 bottom bracket. It's my first time instaling EPS, and my first time dealing with BB30, so I'm learning as I go. I've hit a problem and while I suspect there is no easy solution, I may be missing something obvious and would welcome suggestions.

I have a UT chainset, so I bought a Praxis convertor for the b/b. However, the shell/body of the convertor is a snug fit within the (alloy) b/b shell which leaves no room to route the EPS wires between the two. There are holes in the convertor shell which look like they'd line up with the seat tube and downtube and I could route the relevant wires through those I guess, but there is no hole in the convertor which would line up with the chainstay so no means of routing the rear derailleur wire. I wondered about drilling another hole in the Praxis shell, but I'm very wary of trying that and I think the drive-side end of the Praxis (which threads into the other end) would cover the chainstay opening too.

So, for this kind of b/b shell where the internal diameter is roughly the same all the way through, is there a means of installing a UT chainset?

If not, I assume my options are to buy a Campagnolo Over Torque chainset (if I can find the tools to install/remove it), or buy an alternative brand (FSA?) of BB30-compatible chainset. In which case, I'd be interested in opinions on which would be the better choice (putting aside the headache of the dedicated tools required for Over Torque).

by Weenie


joeyb1000
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

I see nothing wrong with another hole in the Praxis sleeve as long as the threaded cup doesn't interfere (but you can measure that)

I would go with Campy cups before going to Over Torque.

ParisCarbon
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Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Im about to change from Di2 to EPS on a Tarmac.. while you're issue won't effect my frame a few things Id be wary of... routing wires through the sleeve.. Id be wary of chafing the wires....rubbing spindle as well? Im sure someone else can lend more advice on that, ive never routed EPS.. I was looking at the Praxis as well for mine, but I think I am just going to go with the Campy BB30 cups and loctite 609 them in place.. Campy USA suggested I physically glue them in, but Im reluctant to for obvious reasons... Campagnolo has an interal sleeve as well for the EPS routing.. I think the sleeve is alot narrower than the praxis unit as well...

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Miller
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Why didn't the OP simply get the campag bb30 cups?

pooka
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am

by pooka

@joeyb1000 Unfortunately the threaded part of the Praxis adaptor completely covers the chainstay opening. But you've confirmed that I was indeed missing something blatantly obvious, that I can just press in UT BB30 cups. When reading about BB30 and its variants I incorrectly convince myself that all press-fit cups are PF30. Thanks for your help, I feel stupid now :)

@ParisCarbon Yes, I had some concerns about routing wires through the Praxis and I hadn't put much thought into how I'd keep them away from the spindle if I had to do so. From what I've read, it seems like the Praxis should be able to tackle the creaks that BB30 is known for, given the choice between the Praxis and press-fit cups I think I'd use the Praxis (other reasons being: any standard headset/bearing press should be able to install the Praxis, whereas it looks like the BB30 cups might be a little more delicate and need more care if not using an "official" BB30 press; no need to glue the Praxis; the Praxis fits the standard Campagnolo b/b tool but note that the instructions states it needs 2 of them to thread both sides of the unit together).

Oh, and for info, I bought Di2 frame grommets as I couldn't find any EPS grommets when I searched. I've only casually tested one of them, I didn't install it fully but it seemed like a very snug fit, I don't know yet whether it will be too snug i.e. whether the diameter of the hole in the grommet is actually large enough for the wire. I've since found "EPS grommets" online, but there was no info on the diameter of the hole so I don't actually know if is the same as the Di2 grommets.

pooka
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am

by pooka

Miller wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:54 pm
Why didn't the OP simply get the campag bb30 cups?
Because the OP is an idiot (but a better informed idiot now :) ).

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

No idea... that’s what I would use (the appropriate Campy cups). And when CampyUSA said to perhaps “glue” them in, I’m pretty sure what they were implying was to use a retaining compound like Loctite 609 plus primer (Loctite 7649). The key to success with most of these issues is a proper install to begin with, which has been described in detail in many other threads.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Calnago wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:08 pm
No idea... that’s what I would use (the appropriate Campy cups). And when CampyUSA said to perhaps “glue” them in, I’m pretty sure what they were implying was to use a retaining compound like Loctite 609 plus primer (Loctite 7649). The key to success with most of these issues is a proper install to begin with, which has been described in detail in many other threads.
Correct advice.
BB30 and it's various bastard children tend to creak because of cup movement - using the correct grades of Loctite prevents that movement but still allows cup removal without damage to the frame.
Don't forget to insert the sleeve between the cups to prevent the wiring contacting the BB axle.
The cups in practical terms never need to come out as the bearings are captive on the BB axle, not inside the cups - but removal is perfectly possible where the correct Loctite is used.
I have never understood the reluctance to Loctite BB30 bearings or indeed press-fit cups in place - but it is (still) pretty widespread ... presumably because so few mechanics / techs actually understand the grades of Loctite recommended, how to use them and how to break them when required ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

by Weenie


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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

So true, I just worked on a C64 recently which clearly had a retaining compound used on the coarse threads of the Direct mount brakes. So wrong. Didn’t do a thing and the brakes were completely loose, like barely hand tight.
And as for Pressfit BB’s there’s still widespread use of grease it seems by shops. I know of a Cannondale shop that said they remove each new Crank/BB and reinstall using grease because if they don’t they inevitably get the bikes back in a very short time with complaints of creaking. But grease, while masking the creaking, actually facilitates movement (how many times must one write that), and movement is precisely what you do not want in any pressfit application. Oh well.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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