Chorus Cassette + Bora 35 Wheel issues

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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keaton
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

Hello,

My old man has his dream bike: a C60. He's been riding 2015 Campangolo Super Record on it with White IND hubs + Chorus cassette and chain. Performs flawlessly.

We bought him some Bora 35s and put a new chorus cassette on it. The chain is new. The super record shifts fine on this combination, however, it never 'sounds' or 'feels' compleltely in gear. I applogize if this does not make sense. The sound you get when your gears are just slightly out of alighnment.

The bike has been adjusted and re adjusted several times. Still the same. A different cassette was put on the Boras and the issue seems to have been resolved. Again, the chain is new (ok not out of the package new, but little miles).

People have said that they issue is with the cassette (like it is flawed). I have been told to contact campy north america, but they might say the cassette needs to be 'broken in' (ok I am hearing this second hand and my old man is known to be somewhat dyslexic when relaying information). I have had many chorus cassettes on many wheels and never had this kind of issue. Is this a thing??

Sorry for long post, if anyone has any thoughts I'd be all ears, or if you can refer me to an apprpirate thread. Thanks!!!!

by Weenie


jih
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

If anything, it should be best when new. Exception might be that a worn cassette would work better with a worn chain. Have you checked the chain for wear?

keaton
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

jih wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:45 pm
If anything, it should be best when new. Exception might be that a worn cassette would work better with a worn chain. Have you checked the chain for wear?
Yes chain has a few hundred miles on it. Is that to old?

Thanks

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kytyree
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

The different cassette was the same size as the new chorus cassette? Change in cassette size from what he was using on the White IND wheels?

Verified that the proper spacers were in their proper place for the chorus cassette per the diagram that came with the cassette or via the .pdf from Campy's website?

Whats been adjusted specifically? Cable tension? B-screw? H/L limit screws? Or all of the above?

Just trying to get an idea of what might be causing it.

keaton
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

kytyree wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:08 pm
The different cassette was the same size as the new chorus cassette? Change in cassette size from what he was using on the White IND wheels?

Verified that the proper spacers were in their proper place for the chorus cassette per the diagram that came with the cassette or via the .pdf from Campy's website?

Whats been adjusted specifically? Cable tension? B-screw? H/L limit screws? Or all of the above?

Just trying to get an idea of what might be causing it.

Same cassete size 12/25

All of the above

I have not been able to get my hands on the new cassette personally, but my next move was to go through the diagram and cassette to make sure spacers are correct. The shop he took it to spent a very good amount of time working on it, so I was thinking they did this, but you are right, I need to make sure!

Thank you!

c60rider
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

keaton wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:19 pm
kytyree wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:08 pm
The different cassette was the same size as the new chorus cassette? Change in cassette size from what he was using on the White IND wheels?

Verified that the proper spacers were in their proper place for the chorus cassette per the diagram that came with the cassette or via the .pdf from Campy's website?

Whats been adjusted specifically? Cable tension? B-screw? H/L limit screws? Or all of the above?

Just trying to get an idea of what might be causing it.

Same cassete size 12/25

All of the above

I have not been able to get my hands on the new cassette personally, but my next move was to go through the diagram and cassette to make sure spacers are correct. The shop he took it to spent a very good amount of time working on it, so I was thinking they did this, but you are right, I need to make sure!

Thank you!
To clarify, as I've not read it specifically, the different cassette that's been mentioned that works perfectly is presumably another Chorus cassette? If that's the case and everything else is identical and no adjustment has been made aside from swapping the cassette from one Chorus 12/25 to another Chorus 12/25 then the issue lies with the cassette. The only thing it could possibly be with that is if the fractionally thicker spacer has been removed. For the larger sprockets there are 2 sets of 3 sprockets fixed together with the remaining 5 being loose. On the smaller group of 3 the spacer is (or should be) a totally different shape to all the others and clipped onto the smallest sprocket. If it is and all other spacers are the standard ones then somewhere it has to be faulty but no idea why it would sound out of gear in all sprockets otherwise.

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Calnago
Posts: 8419
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Spacers are all the same except for the one (very unique shape can’t miss it) which is generally lodged into the lower side of the 2nd “cluster of 3” cogs.
Since you’re using a different hub, I would make sure you go through the setup and reset the upper limit screw (smallest cog) to ensure that the whole system is actually starting from the right place, call it ground zero. If you start from the wrong place but keep jumping the same amount, you’re never going to land where you want. And as per usual, make sure the hanger is properly aligned and tight against the frame (no loose hanger screws). Make sure you properly torque the locknut to the freehub. Ensure cables are all running smooth etc, usual stuff, and dial it in. I’m going to assume you can dial it in. It shouldn’t feel like it’s not quite in gear and any noise difference should be only due to the cassette being brand new and not yet coated in a sound deadening layer of grease and/or oil. So I could see some “break in” period would make things quieter but it should never “feel” like it’s not quite in gear. The only other thing I could think of is if the other hub, due to a different design perhaps, uses a spacer behind the cassette and you included that on the Bora wheel. The cassette should fit directly onto the Bora freehub with no spacers behind it. Good luck.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

keaton
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

Calnago wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:10 pm
Spacers are all the same except for the one (very unique shape can’t miss it) which is generally lodged into the lower side of the 2nd “cluster of 3” cogs.
Since you’re using a different hub, I would make sure you go through the setup and reset the upper limit screw (smallest cog) to ensure that the whole system is actually starting from the right place, call it ground zero. If you start from the wrong place but keep jumping the same amount, you’re never going to land where you want. And as per usual, make sure the hanger is properly aligned and tight against the frame (no loose hanger screws). Make sure you properly torque the locknut to the freehub. Ensure cables are all running smooth etc, usual stuff, and dial it in. I’m going to assume you can dial it in. It shouldn’t feel like it’s not quite in gear and any noise difference should be only due to the cassette being brand new and not yet coated in a sound deadening layer of grease and/or oil. So I could see some “break in” period would make things quieter but it should never “feel” like it’s not quite in gear. The only other thing I could think of is if the other hub, due to a different design perhaps, uses a spacer behind the cassette and you included that on the Bora wheel. The cassette should fit directly onto the Bora freehub with no spacers behind it. Good luck.
Thanks Colnago!

robertbb
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I've noticed my 12-25 cassette has some minor play/movement in it, compared to all the 12-27 and 12-29 cassette's I've used which have no issue at all. All are Chorus level - I don't bother with Record/SR cassettes. The play on the 12-25 is about 1mm, and is repeatable across multiple hubs (DT 240s, Campy Zonda C17, Campy Shamal C17, Campy Bora Ultra 35). I always torque to spec.

I only have the one 12-25 cassette, which I use on my indoor trainer because I like close ratios to keep cadence in check with TrainerRoad, so I can't try another unfortunately. Maybe mine is just bad. I have my headphones in and music up when on the indoor rig, so I don't notice any crunching but on the workstand it shifts fine.

The 12-27 and 12-29 are my outdoor cassettes and I've gone through a handful of each, never noticed the issue.

TL;DR - try a larger cassette and see.

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Calnago
Posts: 8419
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

1mm of play in a cassette is like the Grand Canyon. Take it off and check the spacers, especially the unique one on the second “cluster of 3” to see if it is broken. Other than a faulty cassette I do not know what else could be wrong as you seem to have troubleshot it ok, putting it on different freehubs etc. and getting the same issue.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

You're right, it is the Grand Canyon. Good suggestion to check the spacers - none are broken but I havn't methodically swapped them out one by one. This would have pissed me off if I was using it outdoors but it's never bothered me too much because it's on a wheel dedicated to indoor training and I typically only use 8 or 9 of the available 11 cogs. Despite the play, I have never missed a shift (though it is a pretty controlled environment).

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