TT winterbike with fenders. Has anyone done it?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Multebear
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

I’m considering how I will train my TT bike this winter in northern European conditions including rain, cold and wet roads. Hometrainer will be an option I will use part of the time. But I will have to get out sometimes as well. And for that I will need a bike with fenders. I have no problem building a solid fender solution on a bike as long as there is a little space between tubes and tires. Fender solutions is my specialty.

Besides that, I don’t want to break the bank building it. I’m considering some kind of older steelframe. But I’m not sure what kind of frame I’m going to need. I currently have a Canyon Speedmax CF, and I want to build the winter bike to the exact same rider position.

Do I need some kind of low pro frame? Is it possible to stem my way out of it on a regular frame? When I look at older TT frames, and the way they are ridden, it looks like the riders have very different rider positions, than what is common today. I’m looking for a position with a flat stretched back, and the head tucked away, not visible from behind.

And what kind of handlebars will I have to look for (everything is integrated on the speedmax)?
Last edited by Multebear on Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


Marin
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by Marin

Regular road frame:

Image

I switched to a 0 offset post and an ISM Adamo to sit far enough forward now. Deda basebar (bullhorn just for look) and Deda Parabolica aerobars - ski shape now.

Copy the the BB->saddle position from the Speedmax. Then I'd check the frame stack to make sure you can get low enough with your armrests, then stem length to get the correct reach - done. You should be able to do this on almost any frame. Maybe you need a negative offset / reverse seatpost if you are very far forward.

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Miller
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by Miller

Marin wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:29 pm
Then I'd check the frame stack to make sure you can get low enough with your armrests, then stem length to get the correct reach - done. You should be able to do this on almost any frame.
No, you won't, not for any serious TT position. Nice photo you posted but there is very little saddle to armrest drop. Compare to a real TT bike where the saddle to armrest drop can be massive.

To the OP, I think you're on a difficult task, either with fitting mudguards (British for fenders) to your Canyon speedmax, or replicating your TT position without buying the same frame. So I see a few practical options. One would be to only train on your TT bike on dry days - there can be some. If you must train your TT position on wet roads then the main thing to avoid is a wet backside. Fit an ass saver thing to your saddle and that will do the trick. That and wearing decent clothing including shoe covers.

AndreLM
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by AndreLM

You can ask a Ti frame builder to replicate your SpeedMax position and ask them to fit the frame with mudguards. Not cheap, and not as fast, but you could even fit it with disk brakes for real-sh**ty conditions.

Waltly in China can make it a bit less expensive

mattr
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by mattr

Miller wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:57 pm
Compare to a real TT bike where the saddle to armrest drop can be massive.
"Can be"

TBH, thats probably where to start from, work out bar/armrest drop and length, then work out a maximum stack (fairly important) and reach (less important) to achieve that with a frame (be it TT or otherwise) and off the shelf parts.
I'd ignore the actual position of the base bar TBH, and just slam the extensions onto the top of it (You only use base for starts and some cornering, so it's not really needed for training in position.)

Then you have to find a frame that ticks the boxes. TBH, i've seen it done with a 26" mtb (old aluminium trek IIRC). 700c disc wheels, guards, shortish stem to get the reach to the base bar then extensions slammed on top of it. Then a 46 big ring (46x11 is a big old gear for training on!).
You can even go down a size (to get the front end even lower) with the longer top tube of an MTB you might get away with it!

It can be done. But, depends on your position. If it's very extreme

Multebear
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by Multebear

I'm not gonna take the bike out on rainy days. I'd rather not ride it then, and just ride my regular rainbike. And just ride the Speedmax on rollers once a week to not lose too much agility over the winter.

But it might be a fun project to build a budget winter TT bike with fenders in order to be able to ride it 2-3 times a week outside.

I guess I'm looking for a frame with long TT and very short HT in order to replicate my Speedmax position. But what frames am I looking for?

Sounds crazy and very interesting with old mtb's. 700 wheels on 26 frame and mudguards? Is this really possible? Do you have any pics? Those frames wouldn't be expensive I guess??

Here's a pic of my current training setup. This position is what I'm aiming for.


Image

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

How can you guys put out any power or stay in such a drop position for more than 2 min?

My hip angle is struggling already on a small drop amd it took many km to get used to the small drop already. I find myself on the base bar most of the time still.

mattr
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by mattr

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:44 am
How can you guys put out any power or stay in such a drop position for more than 2 min?

My hip angle is struggling already on a small drop amd it took many km to get used to the small drop already
your position is wrong for your level of flexibility. TT bike positioning is even more critical than road bike. Especially if you try to meet UCI regs. 5cm set back is the limiting factor for many.

https://goo.gl/images/BTZAfe
It's not the actual bike I've seen (this is a custom build frame) but gives you the concept. Just swap to disc wheels and you'll be sorted. Could even look at flat bar hybrid frames.
Or try and find something like an early on one inbred frame (very short headtube)

cyclenutnz
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by cyclenutnz

One of these https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-ribble-tt-frame/
order it with a fork with fender mounts and you're halfway there
Hard to find an old steel frame with geo that will get close to your speedmax position unless you get a quintana roo (like a superform). Of course, a lot of those were 650c so that may constrict the list of possibilities
http://www.speedtheory.co.nz
http://www.velogicfit.com - 3D Motion Capture and Frame Finder Software

Ettore
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:44 am

by Ettore

I'm doing it slightly different for this winter. I am currently converting my commuter BMC Roadmachine 03 to run SKS longboards in 35mm width, with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires. But I'll be running a shorter stem, a spacer less underneath, and Profile Design T5+ alu aero bars. I'll have to get a TT bike fit soon, and see if I can replicate that position on my commuter.

Little remark about the SKS longboards: the front fender has 90 degree angle profile for mounting on a boss that's on the front of the fork. My BMC has the boss underneath the fork crown, so I will need to make a little hack for mounting this fender. But I want it, because it's just about the best rain shielding one can get.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

alcatraz wrote:How can you guys put out any power or stay in such a drop position for more than 2 min?

My hip angle is struggling already on a small drop amd it took many km to get used to the small drop already. I find myself on the base bar most of the time still.
Position + practice
Using Tapatalk

OrangeRidley
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:05 pm

by OrangeRidley

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:44 am
How can you guys put out any power or stay in such a drop position for more than 2 min?

My hip angle is struggling already on a small drop amd it took many km to get used to the small drop already. I find myself on the base bar most of the time still.
Short cranks helps open your hip flexor. I'm 175cm and run 165s; most bikes are sold with cranks much too long - even in a road position. There is a myth that longer cranks=longer levers=more power but it actually makes a tiny difference - one that will be massively outweighed by opening up your hip angle.
This cyclist article is a good read.
IMG_20180827_165511.jpg

Multebear
Posts: 1298
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:44 am
How can you guys put out any power or stay in such a drop position for more than 2 min?

My hip angle is struggling already on a small drop amd it took many km to get used to the small drop already. I find myself on the base bar most of the time still.
I’m definitely not there yet, but I’m feeling improvement when spending more and more time in the TT position.

I’ve done a lot of adjusting the position on the bike, and that helps as well. Actually what helped me most was moving the seatpost up. Gives more drag, but it opened up somehow in order for me to producere more watts at a lower HR and gave me a little more speed. At the end of the day speed is the key, not watts. But it takes a lot of experimenting finding the right combo between position and speed.

One thing’s for sure though, in order to feel comfortable and produce speed, you need to spend time on the bike. I didn’t feel improvement until I rode the bike 2 times or more a week in the TT position.

mattr wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:40 am

https://goo.gl/images/BTZAfe
It's not the actual bike I've seen (this is a custom build frame) but gives you the concept. Just swap to disc wheels and you'll be sorted. Could even look at flat bar hybrid frames.
Or try and find something like an early on one inbred frame (very short headtube)
Looks very interesting, but also like a complicated project. At the moment I’m browsing through the local classifieds section to find a budget TT, complete bike or frame, that I can work with.

alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I found I like base bars with a lot of drop. That or putting tall spacers under the aero bars.

It helps to make the transition into a low aero position easier as it doesn't completely change the body angle. I have now about 40mm drop base bar and 25mm spacers under the aero bars but I wish I had more. :lol:

I don't think I could ride a bike like in Marin's picture. Transition is huge.

by Weenie


mattr
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by mattr

Multebear wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:46 am
Looks very interesting, but also like a complicated project.
Once you've worked out what frame will work, it's pretty straightforward......... build bike, fit guards, ride.

I've had a look at the inbred i've got downstairs and i can replicate the position of my TT bike with the stuff i have in the workshop (nothing out of the ordinary, 8-9 cm stem, few spacers), plus a zero offset post. Only issue with this is i've not yet ridden the TT bike in anger so the position might change yet!
(Obviously need wheels and suchlike as well, unlikely to be able to fit guards over the 26x2.5" i've got in there now!)

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