Zipp 404 Bearing Replacement/Upgrade

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I've got a set of Zipp 404 Clinchers with the 88/188 V9 hubs. I've got some play that's developed in the wheel, which I think may be attributable to wear. I'm sure someone on here has replaced/upgraded the bearings on these wheels, but should I also look at replacing the axle? Also, what brand of bearings did you use? I would rather like to avoid using the Zipp parts, given their questionable reliability.

Thanks!
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mrlobber
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by mrlobber

Check https://www.zipp.com/support/identify/hub_timeline.php for bearings in different Zipp hubs. To me, it looks like your rear hub uses 2x 61903 bearings in the hub, and 2x 61803 bearings in the freehub.
Bearing specifications: https://www.zipp.com/support/identify/bearings.php

I'd personally replace them with something from Hambini sources.
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by Weenie


ill principe
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by ill principe

I´m on my 4th set of bearings on my 2013 188 11spd rear hub. The wheels is used about 1500-2000km every summer in dry weather only.

According to my LBS mechanic older Zipp hubs eats bearing like no others. The construction put side load forces from the axle on the bearings. Just what I´ve been told...

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

Yeah, I'm sure the Zipp hubs eat bearings, especially given the older hub design. I think the final version of the 188 hub resolved some of the issues, by goin with the "virtual 3x lacing", but I still think these bearings need to be replaced.

I'll check out Hambini's site, and see what he has to say. Thanks!
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hambini
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by hambini

From my records it's

6803 x 2 in the freehub
6903 x2 in the rear hub

6803 x 2 in the front hub

But please check as this info has been passed on to me over the years.

If you are going for contact seals, any of them will do the job. If you want low friction then I'd recommend NTN.

Hambini

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I'm not sure NTN bearings are available here in the US. Do you know anything about their availability?

I'm afraid I may only be able to find whatever Zipp uses, Enduro (if it's different from what Zipp offers) and Ceramic Speed.
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hambini
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by hambini

FIJIGabe wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:22 pm
I'm not sure NTN bearings are available here in the US. Do you know anything about their availability?

I'm afraid I may only be able to find whatever Zipp uses, Enduro (if it's different from what Zipp offers) and Ceramic Speed.
Last time I was in the US, I used a company called grainger, they had everything next day. I would try them.

I would be amazed if you can't find those bearings in the US, there must be millions in use

pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

A while back I inquired about buying NTN bearings from a U.S. distributor. Someone gave me this company (Misumi) and I've been very happy with using them. Don't buy Enduro. They are poor quality and over-priced compard to NTN bearings.

https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/2 ... sults2type

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I'm familiar with Granger. They're a big tool store, here. I actually have a friend who used to work for them.

I'm also going to check Misumi. The price for the 6903's looks good (<$7 each).

My only question remaining question is this: should I replace the axle as well? Thanks for all the help, everyone.
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fordred
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by fordred

FIJIGabe wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:30 pm
I've got a set of Zipp 404 Clinchers with the 88/188 V9 hubs. I've got some play that's developed in the wheel, which I think may be attributable to wear. I'm sure someone on here has replaced/upgraded the bearings on these wheels, but should I also look at replacing the axle? Also, what brand of bearings did you use? I would rather like to avoid using the Zipp parts, given their questionable reliability.

Thanks!
The play in the rear hub is expected. It's how the hub is designed. Zipp says the play will be eliminated once there is load on it.
Play with the pre-load adjustments, but don't expect to eliminate it totally.
Some people tried applying a layer of nail polish on where the axle contacts the bearing and says it reduces the play. Didn't try it personally.

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I adjust the preload regularly, but lately, the play has gotten worse.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Zipp say play in hub is normal. What other rubbish. Although preload should be set with the wheel clamped in the frane. Maybe that's what they are refering to. Play means the bearings are going to see loads they shouldn't and then they fail. If you can't remove okay, then the bearings are on there way out.

Just get your rear wheel rebuilt with a miche or carbon ti hub. Both these have bearing preload that removes the play.

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I would, but I'm waiting to see what Shimano does with 12-speed. I don't want to spend the money to completely rebuild the wheels when I may need to upgrade them to 12-speed, and I doubt SRAM will release a new freehub for the 188 hub.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

I’ve lost track of what Zipp is doing with their hubs as in the past they seem to have radically changed some aspect of their design on a yearly basis. Now I’m more intrigued by their study of whales as it relates to bicycle wheels. But yes, and I don’t know if this is still the case, the bearings used to have some “play” built in “by design” and the partyline was that with load that play was eliminated and they rolled oh so fast, in a straight line. Keep in mind that was when Zipp was king in the tri world so who cares what they felt like in turns. I never liked that idea of any excessive play in the bearings as I thought, and still do, any excessive lateral play in the bearings of my wheels was the Devil’s work in an aggressive turn.
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hambini
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by hambini

This "play" is called bearing clearance. You can get bearings with a bigger gap between the balls and the races. This increases the axial load carrying capacity of the bearing but the radial friction increases.

C3 is slightly bigger than normal clearance.

Having play in the bearings is different to having insufficient preload to take the play out. If you've got play after it's assembled, then something is worn/rubbish fit etc.

by Weenie


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