DA 9150 - Whats next?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Karvalo
Posts: 665
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:29 am
I think it's to ensure shift quality. When 11-17 is available in single tooth spacing and then grows fast to 3-4t spacing, it produces a valley in the middle of the cassette where the upper derailleur pulley has a much larger clearance and thus deteriorates the shift quality there.

So while I think 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28,32 is possible it's more likely you will see this from sram rather than shimano.
Agreed. It’s shift quality and consistency of ratio steps from Shimano. It’s why they were so slow to embrace 1x on MTB. The likelihood that they’d be happy with six single tooth jumps, a single two tooth jump and straight into three toothers is very low. The percentage change goes from 6% to 14% in the space of three shifts. Something like 15,17,19,21,23,26,29,32 is much more consistent.

madik
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:44 pm

by madik

Will Shimano pull the plug on the mechanical Dura Ace in next iteration? What do you think? I think its time. The number of shifters for a rim brake Di2, rim brake mechanical, disc brakes di2, disc brake mechanical is probably not sustainable for a long term at a Dura Ace level.

by Weenie


BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2278
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

madik wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:18 pm
Will Shimano pull the plug on the mechanical Dura Ace in next iteration? What do you think? I think its time. The number of shifters for a rim brake Di2, rim brake mechanical, disc brakes di2, disc brake mechanical is probably not sustainable for a long term at a Dura Ace level.
My feeling is that we'll get at least one more generation of mechanical DA. Shimano put a lot of work in the new mechanical XTR and that tech has been trickling into the following generations on the road side these last few cycles.

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tymon_tm
Posts: 2844
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

madik wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:18 pm
Will Shimano pull the plug on the mechanical Dura Ace in next iteration? What do you think? I think its time. The number of shifters for a rim brake Di2, rim brake mechanical, disc brakes di2, disc brake mechanical is probably not sustainable for a long term at a Dura Ace level.
why would they? to satisfy those who went electric and sort of confirm they made a good choice :lol: ?

unless like 80% of customers pick electric, and prices go down to where mechanical is today, nothing like that will ever happen
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

I think we'll get 105 Di2 before DA becomes Di2-only. It honestly surprised me that R7000 is mechanical-only (so far).

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2278
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Toby wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:03 pm
I think we'll get 105 Di2 before DA becomes Di2-only. It honestly surprised me that R7000 is mechanical-only (so far).
I don't think there will be a 105 level DI2 group. In three generations of DI2 so far, Shimano have yet to do it at the 105 level. If they were inclined to do so I think they would have already done so. Perhaps they will if they ever do abandon mechanical drivetrains but that day, if it ever comes, is a good way off yet.

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 737
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I have three bikes with DA 9150. So hopefully no changes until 2020 or even better, 2021.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

IchDien
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 am
Location: Veneto

by IchDien

csb

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 737
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

IchDien wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:14 pm
csb
Glad you enjoyed it.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

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themidge
Posts: 1136
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm
Location: underneath sweet Scottish rain

by themidge

Boshk wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:19 am

Would you really notice 16T?
I don't think it's the 16t itself I miss, more so the jump between 15t and 17t annoys me when going fast in a group or something. If I had a 48t front ring I'd be happy in that regard, but then I'd get dropped on those dreaded slightly-downhill-with-a-tailwind-and-I'm-52kg kind of group rides!

Re: 12 speed, there must be a point where cables just don't cut it and you have to go Di2 to get the shifting accurate enough, I'm bad enough at setting up 10 speed, 12 or 14 sounds awful! I think they should keep mechanical at 11 or maybe 12 speed (just to keep up with campy) and go nuts with the cog numbers on Di2, it'd hurt upgrade sales a bit, but I think it could be beneficial for both systems: Mechanical keeps its current smoothness, ease of set-up, and adequate gear range, and Di2 can be for Durianrider to stay at exactly 100 cadence all the time.

RussellS
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

I don't know when Shimano will move to 12 speed. Or upgrade its Di2. But I doubt Campagnolo having 12 speed road has much if any impact on Shimano. Campagnolo is tiny. Kind of like how GM, Ford, Fiat, VW don't care if Rolls, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren have V-12 engines in their cars. They don't take market share. In the USA at least, there is only Shimano and SRAM at the recreational/race level. But Shimano and SRAM both have 12 speed on their mountain groups. So it seems like they could easily bring 12 speed to the road. I'd guess 2020. Let Campagnolo have 12 speed to themselves for 2019.

Concerning the people commenting on how they want nice evenly spaced 12 speed cassettes. No. The benefit of more cogs is to get closely spaced gears where they matter. At the small and medium cog positions. Where you ride all the time. I don't want closely spaced cogs at the big end. I want huge jumps with the big cogs. IF I need a big cog, I need a big cog. I don't want to waste cogs and shifts slowly ratcheting up to a big cog. I want it NOW. My ideal 12 speed cassette would be 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-28-34. Paired with a 48-33 110mm bcd crank. Someone mentioned there now being 10 tooth cogs. Combined with a 44-30 or 42-30 crankset, that might be a great gearing system. Long ago I had a touring bike I rode all over Europe. Its last cogs were 21-24-32. Wonderful to go from 24 to 32 when climbing mountains.

XCProMD
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Problem is when your mates try to kill you on 21, 23, 25/26 all the time. Say 10-12% slope at 350-400 W for an hour...

Then you need even spacing also at the bottom end of the gears


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andreas
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm

by andreas

XCProMD wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:23 pm
Problem is when your mates try to kill you on 21, 23, 25/26 all the time. Say 10-12% slope at 350-400 W for an hour...
Are your mates Chris Froome and Geraint Thomas :) ?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3795
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

themidge wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:12 pm
Boshk wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:19 am

Would you really notice 16T?
I don't think it's the 16t itself I miss, more so the jump between 15t and 17t annoys me when going fast in a group or something. If I had a 48t front ring I'd be happy in that regard, but then I'd get dropped on those dreaded slightly-downhill-with-a-tailwind-and-I'm-52kg kind of group rides!

Re: 12 speed, there must be a point where cables just don't cut it and you have to go Di2 to get the shifting accurate enough, I'm bad enough at setting up 10 speed, 12 or 14 sounds awful! I think they should keep mechanical at 11 or maybe 12 speed (just to keep up with campy) and go nuts with the cog numbers on Di2, it'd hurt upgrade sales a bit, but I think it could be beneficial for both systems: Mechanical keeps its current smoothness, ease of set-up, and adequate gear range, and Di2 can be for Durianrider to stay at exactly 100 cadence all the time.

Pulling cables is already a matter of millimeters. Indexing is done via a ratchet in the lever body and it doesn’t really matter how tight the gaps are. Adding more gears won’t affect accuracy in a way you can really perceive.

ghisallo2003
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

andreas wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:48 pm
XCProMD wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:23 pm
Problem is when your mates try to kill you on 21, 23, 25/26 all the time. Say 10-12% slope at 350-400 W for an hour...
Are your mates Chris Froome and Geraint Thomas :) ?
Or just quite heavy.

by Weenie


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