How to Best Lighten Up a Cannondale SystemSix

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

I have a Cannndale SystemSix Hi-Mod DA Di2 https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bike/ ... =undefined on order and so decided the best thing to do with my current SuperSix was to put it on a WW diet. With almost all the parts for the SuperSix here (build thread coming soon), I've already started looking at the SystemSix to see if there are any areas where I can slim it down a bit.

I should note that I am aware the SystemSix is not the lightest bike - that's OK, I have enough faith in Damon and Cannondale that I do believe in almost every case it will be faster than my SuperSix. So I'm hoping to avoid a debate about things like disc/non-disc, other bikes, etc. I am committed to this bike, very excited to receive it, and really just focused on identifying potential weight savings.

I will acknowledge, that a "WW SystemSix" is a bit of a misnomer, and to be clear, is not what I am after. I know the bike had a relatively high floor on its weight. I will have the SuperSix as a backup and if I need to do a serious hillclimb TT. But outside of that, I expect the SystemSix to be the workhorse bike in my stable and so with that, am not looking for any "stupid light" modifications. This is a case where durability will count a lot. Finally, there is so much integration in this bike that it limits the opportunities to modify. So with that, here are my initial ideas, would love to hear others...

Wheels. Fairly obvious target, since the KNOT wheels come in at ~1600g. But IMHO these KNOT wheels are really something special, and this is an aero bike, so slapping 1000g 25x20 tubulars on a SystemSix would be rather silly. I don't plan on shaving any weight here, though I will have a set of AR 4.5 Discs with fat 28c Pro Ones for days when I want to save the KNOT wheels and go super plush Cadillac ride style.

Saddle. Easy target here, though until my Dila saddle arrives and I can tell if it will work for daily use, this will be my current saddle of choice, Shimano Stealth.

Crankset. If you don't want a PM or are OK with a Stages (I'm not), I think you could ditch the NG ECO spider and use a Spidering.

Stem and Bars. Sure I could replace the bars and stem, but then you lose the clean front end with all cables hidden. A sacrilege on this bike!

Tires. I'll be going tubeless, so should lose a little weight ditching inner tubes.

Cassette. The WW EVO is going to use a 120g Omni Race cassette, but for a daily workhorse bike, I think I'm going to stick with a Dura-Ace cassette (though I will swap to an 11-28).

So what does that leave? I can't see any low-hanging fruit, though I would welcome suggestions on the following and anything else I'm not thinking of:

Disc rotors - are there lightweight alternatives that perform as well (or close to as well) as the RT900s?
Bottom bracket
Headset bearings
Bolts, shifter clamps, other small stuff?
Brake housing?
What else?
Last edited by refthimos on Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

by Weenie


JScycle
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 pm

by JScycle

refthimos wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:02 pm
I have a Cannndale SuperSix Hi-Mod DA Di2 https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bike/ ... =undefined on order

Super excited for the build thread! Just letting you know you may have a typo saying you have a supersix on order (link to systemsix)

From what I have read from the knot wheels the 1600g weight for them is not much for the supposed aerodynamics. If you really wanted to make them lighter swapping hubs would be the best bet

grover
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:06 pm

by grover

I think you've pretty much nailed it. As bikes get more and more integrated, modification becomes less possible.

Saddle - yes

Crankset - yes. No powermeter, or SpiderRing with left crank based powermeter. Or maybe THM SRM is lighter than stock P2M but $$$?

Tires - Tubes - If you decided against tubeless then put Tubolito tubes in? Lighter tyres if staying clincher equals puncture risk so not an option for me.

Stem and bars - not an option. Maybe some bolt tuning, trim the drops shorter (not worth it)?

Cassette - you already know there's lighter options, but not whilst maintaining performance.

Chain - maybe 20-30 grams to be had with some lighter options. Performance might still be acceptable.

Rotors - yes lighter options. Ashima Ai. Lighter that won't sacrifice performance, no. Nothing matches Shimano for cooling.

Bolts, shifter clamps - yes, expensive for minimal weight saving. But possibly one of the few things you can do.

Brake housing - no, hydro lines. No real weight saving to be had and definitely won't maintain performance.

Through axles - there might be 20 grams to be had there.

Bottom bracket and headset bearings - no notable savings to be had.

Boshk
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

If you need PM but don't want to go the P2M or THM SRM, maybe Vector 3 with DA crankset though not the lightest

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

grover wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:10 am
Stem and bars - not an option. Maybe some bolt tuning, trim the drops shorter (not worth it)?
I'm not so sure about that. On a DI2 bike the amount of hose that would be exposed from a careful installation would be minimal, and could be well worth it. I could see the Enve aero stem and bar looking good on it, or the Black Inc combo bar/stem, to name a couple.

hannawald
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

It seems that you are satisfied with everything so no worry:)
If you want to go lighter (if you have Enve as a spare it seems budget is no constraint) you will be loosing by 20g not by hundreds...
Saddle is obvious choice there you can save a lot - look for Berk, many satisfied users here. 100g saddle and comfortable.

PYC SP1101 chain (ebay), shifting ok, lasts ok, lighter than Shimano, KMC.

140mm rotor rear (dont know what is stock), 6bolts rotors with adapters will be lighter, for example Galfer Road.

Lightweight tape - perforated Deda.

Hutchinson Fusion 5 11storm galactik (all in the name is important, they have many versions of the tyre) - claimed 240g, but 225g real, verified vy many, Pro One are 255 claimed, but usually 270g for 25mm

Lightweight cages - carbonworks.de, lightweight pedals Time xpresso 15, light thru axles

Crazy stuff: Thm cranks, sram etap,

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

hannawald wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:12 am
It seems that you are satisfied with everything so no worry:)
If you want to go lighter (if you have Enve as a spare it seems budget is no constraint) you will be loosing by 20g not by hundreds...
You could def save a LOT more than 20g by changing out the Knot front end. The stem is pretty chunky.

There’s a bolt-Thru version of the Speed Release to drop a few grams. Still not mega light, but more aero than the levered version.

hannawald
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Vision Metron 5d looks like an option

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Karvalo wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:46 pm
There’s a bolt-Thru version of the Speed Release to drop a few grams. Still not mega light, but more aero than the levered version.
Interesting... but is it compatible with Cannondale's double lead thread? I like the Speed Releases but they're a bit bulky...

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:55 pm
Interesting... but is it compatible with Cannondale's double lead thread? I like the Speed Releases but they're a bit bulky...
I assumed they were - they come on the new Cannondale F-Si. I can check directly tomorrow.

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I would not worry much about the weight of this bike. Maybe a lighter saddle and bottle cages and call it a day.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
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refthimos
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Robert Axle Project has released and shipped proper Speed Release bolt-on skewers.

Stock weight F/R: 52g 62g
Robert Axle F/R: 26g, 36g.

So 52g to be saved. And aero. And sleek. But you will need a 6mm allen to remove your wheels.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 Coming soon! [6.19kg]
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Disc TBD
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

spdntrxi
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

refthimos wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:18 pm
Robert Axle Project has released and shipped proper Speed Release bolt-on skewers.

Stock weight F/R: 52g 62g
Robert Axle F/R: 26g, 36g.

So 52g to be saved. And aero. And sleek. But you will need a 6mm allen to remove your wheels.
I have RAP TAs' on my Parlee TTir... nice axles.. good idea so for it.

RocketRacing
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Mostly covered. Intergrated bikes suck to upgrade.

- carbonworks bottle cages (8g each with bolts)
- elite fly bottles (sub 60g)
- light bar tape (deda). Don’t tape tops.
- berk lupina unpadded, thich rails (~75g)
- cane creek upper and lower AER headset bearings and top cap.
- extralight expander
- bb is minimal grams saving, but you can get a few.
- crank (or all out etap, as the stock sram is pretty good without going thm $$$ crazy. My etap saved 0.5lbs over ultegra)
- pedals (lots of good options in 160g region for the pair.
- ashima ai disc brakes (-60g or so). Unless you are a fatty, a pro descender, or live next to the alps, you will be fine.
- tires... sure, but investing in a set with the best rolling resistance is better speed for your buck (aka: keep the stock rims)
- chain/chainrings/casette. But at a cost to shift quality, and durability. Stick to top wnd for big three i say. Rhe rest if instagram bling that no one really rides post photoshoot.
- through axles
- strip paint from frame (60-100g, coid warranty)
- calipers (i am sure there are light boutique options for 1000$ that save 30g).

My advice is that you have one of the fastest, if not the fastest aero road bike right now. Ask how you can max it’s aero strengths (look in the mirror). Choose contact points for comfort (lupina for me!), not weight. Then go ww on a nice used rim brake bike. I am unsure of your groupset, but don’t expect more than 0.5lbs weight saving... 1lbs max if you go all out. Unless you start to eat into it’s aero chops....

Given rider/bike system weight, savings would be in the realm of a scale margin of error.

In the end, do what makes you happy

by Weenie


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Klaster_1
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
Location: Russia

by Klaster_1

RocketRacing wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:06 am
- calipers (i am sure there are light boutique options for 1000$ that save 30g).
Hope RX4 and alloy backed pads are reasonably priced and are available for both Shimano and SRAM.

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