Pedal power meter or crank based?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
robertbb
Posts: 503
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:08 am
Favero Assioma Duo are probably the best overall unless you really want Cycling Dynamics (nobody does) or you train indoors a lot on Zwift with an iOS/tvOS device. Only the Vector 3s and Exakts have the ability to appear as a single BT device in an app like Zwift. Assioma and PowerTap pedals appear as separate devices and whichever you pair gets its power doubled.

I imagine P1 pedals will get a P2 upgrade by early spring, and more players will enter the pedal PM market. (Wahoo.)
Favero is releasing a new firmware in the next few months that will ensure they appear as a single-device over BlueTooth (I requested the feature and got an email from them confirming it's in testing and will be released).
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:30 am

Favero is releasing a new firmware in the next few months that will ensure they appear as a single-device over BlueTooth (I requested the feature and got an email from them confirming it's in testing and will be released).

If this happens I will almost surely buy a pair to use on my backup bike and indoor training.

by Weenie


3Pio
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:39 am
robertbb wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:30 am

Favero is releasing a new firmware in the next few months that will ensure they appear as a single-device over BlueTooth (I requested the feature and got an email from them confirming it's in testing and will be released).

If this happens I will almost surely buy a pair to use on my backup bike and indoor training.
Im allready on Beta Version of Firmware supporting something like this... This is some info i got when i applied for Beta firmware :

"The main goal of this feature is full interoperability even with apps that currently do not fully manage dual-sided power meters. In practical terms, the left-foot Assioma DUO pedal will be able to send data from both pedals, including Power Balance data, through one unified channel (im not sure if that unified channel is Ant+ or Bluetooth).

For the time being, the new firmware may not yet be fully compatible with certain applications. However, we are in contact with representatives of the main cycling apps (Zwift, SufferFest, TrainerRoad, Rouvy, etc.) to ensure proper alignment between Assioma and the different software platforms by the official release of our new firmware, scheduled for later this August. "


Still, since it's nice weather outside, i did not test it with some of the apps for indoor training....But i can confirm that at least no problems in my riding with this firmware.. I even notice faster calibration process then before (before sometimes was happening to get calibration failed, and with this beta firmware never happened until now).

robeambro
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Since I've never tried either, would you say the difference between Ultegra pedals and Favero Assioma is noticeable? Power measurement aside, is there a gap in "pure pedal performance" (whatever that is: comfort, power transfer, noise, ease of use etc) going from the former to the latter?

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I think you can find multiple threads talking about pedal preferences and see pretty consistent comments that Shimano road pedals are top notch for all of those things you mentioned, which I think most would be inlcined to conlcude that Yes, there is a gap in overall performance, comfort, ease of use and durability between the Shimano pedal offerings and many others. I had a brief foray into the Look system when I just thought the Blades were pretty cool looking and decided to try them. They didn't last long on my bike. Just limiting the commens to the cleat system, I tried the standard cleats, which were ok for riding but like a skating rink if you were off the bike, and they didn't last very long at all. The "walkable" cleats have little rubber feet on them, but weren't so great for actually riding. But again, very short lived. So, contrast that to the Shimano pedals, and the cleats, which are such an important part of any pedal/cleat system, and they are nice and wide, and very walkable, and last so much longer. And they just seemed a lot smoother in operation, clicking in etc., relaxed position just prior to clicking in, all of it. Plus, just the overall durabiliity of the pedals and the smoothness of the bearings along with their super solid build quality makes them hard to give up, like a good saddle.

But Look is clearly willing to license their cleat system to whomever and I'm sure it's a finanically viable arrangement for the powermeter companies and Look as well. I just don't like a system that gets transferred between multiple bikes a lot (if you have them), that relies on threading, tighenting, loosening, unthreading, then repeating over and over. It wears the threads at a very high rate, and those threads are part and parcel of you crankset, whatever it is. Now, if you only have one bike and like the idea of being able to take just the pedals with you for a vacation every now and then where you don't want to pack your bike, then that's great. Or if you only switch pedals between bikes on a very infrequent basis, like a winter/summer swap, then fine, if you prefer the pedal system over a crank based spider system. It's a far more affordable system for sure than having a dedicated power meter on every bike. As long as you like the pedal/cleat system, and lots do. They work. You just need to prioritize your needs and what's important to you.
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Js2
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm

by Js2

I agree with Calnago, Shimano SPD-SL is by far the best pedal system I ever used. This is considering all aspect such as durability, smoothness, solid click feel, cleat durability etc. I would not use any pedal based power meter unless it's Shimano cleat compatible. :beerchug:

Maybe a left crank only power meter would be a good option for rental bikes, just have to find one with a good match like for example a shimano crankset on the rental. Install the the left only crank temporarily until you need to return the bike :P

robeambro
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Calnago wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:15 pm
I think you can find multiple threads talking about pedal preferences and see pretty consistent comments that Shimano road pedals are top notch for all of those things you mentioned, which I think most would be inlcined to conlcude that Yes, there is a gap in overall performance, comfort, ease of use and durability between the Shimano pedal offerings and many others. I had a brief foray into the Look system when I just thought the Blades were pretty cool looking and decided to try them. They didn't last long on my bike. Just limiting the commens to the cleat system, I tried the standard cleats, which were ok for riding but like a skating rink if you were off the bike, and they didn't last very long at all. The "walkable" cleats have little rubber feet on them, but weren't so great for actually riding. But again, very short lived. So, contrast that to the Shimano pedals, and the cleats, which are such an important part of any pedal/cleat system, and they are nice and wide, and very walkable, and last so much longer. And they just seemed a lot smoother in operation, clicking in etc., relaxed position just prior to clicking in, all of it. Plus, just the overall durabiliity of the pedals and the smoothness of the bearings along with their super solid build quality makes them hard to give up, like a good saddle.

But Look is clearly willing to license their cleat system to whomever and I'm sure it's a finanically viable arrangement for the powermeter companies and Look as well. I just don't like a system that gets transferred between multiple bikes a lot (if you have them), that relies on threading, tighenting, loosening, unthreading, then repeating over and over. It wears the threads at a very high rate, and those threads are part and parcel of you crankset, whatever it is. Now, if you only have one bike and like the idea of being able to take just the pedals with you for a vacation every now and then where you don't want to pack your bike, then that's great. Or if you only switch pedals between bikes on a very infrequent basis, like a winter/summer swap, then fine, if you prefer the pedal system over a crank based spider system. It's a far more affordable system for sure than having a dedicated power meter on every bike. As long as you like the pedal/cleat system, and lots do. They work. You just need to prioritize your needs and what's important to you.
I wouldn't have hoped for such a detailed response! Thanks!

Anyway I don't plan on having many bikes, only a proper roadie and a winter/commuter bike. I don't think I'd swap often (if ever!). Maybe crank based may make more sense..

surfinguru
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:16 pm

by surfinguru

Hey, thanks for all the great feedback guys. I've been trying to sort our weight differences between going with Dzero/Red22 and just keeping what I've got. I'm just having trouble finding listed weight for my 2013 Specialized carbon cranks that came with my SL4 Pro. (The non S-Works labled ones. They just say Specialized.) Anyway, this is what I've got so far. (Sorry for the funky formatting.) So depending on what info I can find for my existing crankset, looks like crank based will probably come out lighter.

Spesh Cranks ???
P1 437
Praxis Rings 129
Total grams 566


Red22 DZero 560
Ultegra Pedals 258
Praxis Rings 129
Total grams 947

Image

Edit: Update pedal weight
Attachments
Bike Cranks.JPG
Last edited by surfinguru on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Uh, Ultegra pedals probably weigh 129g...each.

Also if you are really concerned about overall weight, you should just stick to Look, Time or Speedplay.

robertbb
Posts: 503
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Favero's weigh 149 each... what's 20g worth either side...? One adds 40g at least with a crank based PM...
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:32 pm
Favero's weigh 149 each... what's 20g worth either side...? One adds 40g at least with a crank based PM...

KeO Blade Carbon Ti pedals weigh 190g
Favero Assiomas weigh 305g

Quarq DZero in BB30 weighs 560g

The Specialized cranks would have to weigh a portly 445g without chainrings for the Assioma+Specialized combo to weigh more. For reference, the newer Specialized carbon cranks weigh ~400g and Red/eTap BB30 cranks weigh ~360g.

rlanger
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:53 am

by rlanger

I debated between the Faveros and 4iiii and ultimately chose 4iiii for a few reasons.

1. I've broken 2 pedals in crashes so would hate to crash with a pedal based power meter.

2. It's only 9 grams.

3. I only have one bike.

So far it's been a rock solid PM and I'm very happy with my choice.

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silvalis
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

I had Vector 3's on backorder for a long time and debated between going Faveros or just getting a Dzero. Got the Dzero in the end. I'm fairly sure I gained about 100-150g overall, but felt it a better choice as I'll probably want to stick it on a gravel bike at some point in the future.
Chasse patate

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