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Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 am
by mattr
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:43 pm
What bike has longer reach and lower stack than Specialized Allez Sprint??
It is already a bit more aggressive than Specialized Venge and Canyon Aeroad.
Custom, my frame is 8-10mm longer than the allez sprint (in my size) and about 3-5mm lower stack. Was originally built with a 120mm/-17 stem. (and 5mm of spacers)
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:43 pm
For most brands, size 50 and up with short stem rides better than size 49 and smaller with longer stem.
There are exceptions with some company that bother making different fork with more offset for smaller size than larger size to keep trail and handling in check. Then smaller sizes also ride fine.
Which is why i'm custom, the off the peg version of the frame i'm running had a 71 head angle plus a "standard" fork. and a too short top tube, going up a size means i can't get the bars where i want them without something like a 90mm -25 degree stem.

It handled like shit.

So i have a longer top tube and steeper head tube.

Buying a new bike is going to be fun. I'll have to wait until my back completely disintegrates so i need a normal frame.

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 am
by Weenie

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:02 am
by mattr
Double post

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:30 am
by istigatrice
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:43 pm
What bike has longer reach and lower stack than Specialized Allez Sprint??
It is already a bit more aggressive than Specialized Venge and Canyon Aeroad.
Sorry if it wasn't clear - I meant a longer (and possibly higher) frame. In my humble opinion I feel like N was trying to 'compensate' too little reach with less stack. I understand that the Allez is quite aggressive, hence why I suggested a 150mm stem. That said if it was a 58 Allez getting longer wouldn't be an issue (size up to a 61 - or buy a 61/64 from another brand). I could also be very wrong, and the higher stack would just result in more balling up, but to me balling up means stretching out (rather than getting lower).

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:23 pm
by Nefarious86
istigatrice wrote:
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:43 pm
What bike has longer reach and lower stack than Specialized Allez Sprint??
It is already a bit more aggressive than Specialized Venge and Canyon Aeroad.
Sorry if it wasn't clear - I meant a longer (and possibly higher) frame. In my humble opinion I feel like N was trying to 'compensate' too little reach with less stack. I understand that the Allez is quite aggressive, hence why I suggested a 150mm stem. That said if it was a 58 Allez getting longer wouldn't be an issue (size up to a 61 - or buy a 61/64 from another brand). I could also be very wrong, and the higher stack would just result in more balling up, but to me balling up means stretching out (rather than getting lower).
More reach + lower is what fixed my issues. I went 20/30mm longer before I began going lower.

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Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:35 pm
by ergott
mattr wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 am
Buying a new bike is going to be fun. I'll have to wait until my back completely disintegrates so i need a normal frame.
Aren't Storcks real long and low?

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:04 pm
by joejack951
ergott wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:35 pm
mattr wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 am
Buying a new bike is going to be fun. I'll have to wait until my back completely disintegrates so i need a normal frame.
Aren't Storcks real long and low?
Not Weight Weenie but the Breezer Venturi (discontinued but pops up real cheap from time to time) struck me as super long and low, at least if used with a non-upturned stem and no/minimal spacers. I recall Lemond frames being designed similarly as well, with the same weight/availability issues, though.

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:47 am
by istigatrice
Nefarious86 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:23 pm
I went 20/30mm longer before I began going lower.
Good to know - I would like to remark that maybe you could get away with 40/50mm longer and a little bit higher, BUT if you're comfortable now there's no reason to change it.

(Not related to quote but to the discussion about long and low bikes) there are quite a few long and low frames if you've got access to BT or UKSI road bikes. If you're not looking for a super long bike (just long), Fuji messed up the geometry of their transonic and gran fondo frames so the smaller sizes are actually the same length as a 54-56 because of the steep seat tube angle. Velocite did the same thing on their small selene (so it has the reach of a 54/55 but the stack of a 50/52). The older alloy Dolan framesets should also be reasonably aggressive too - not sure if it carried over to their latest model though. Another option is to source an old Cervelo P3C or P4 but I'm not a fan of the single bottle cage and horizontal drop outs for road use.

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:27 am
by AW84
Us long-legged folks can't do slammed stems, but we can do saddle-to-bar drop, which evidently isn't as cool as having the stem resting on the headset bearing. I'm 6'0 tall with an atypical 34-35-inch inseam. I comfortably ride a saddle-to-bar drop far greater than the pros and the slammed-stem Instagrammers, but my stem is merely a flipped +6 100mm with a 3/4-inch cap under it. Not that looks are a priority over comfort, but I think it looks cool nevertheless.

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:28 am
by AW84
Duplicate post in error. :noidea:

Re: Do slammed stems mean bike fits have gone out the window

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:19 am
by mattr
ergott wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Aren't Storcks real long and low?
And have silly head angles/fork offset in small sizes, at least the ones i've looked at/are in budget.
The best compromise i've found (barely in budget) is the canyons (cf slx), head angle/fork rake is acceptable, reach and stack is acceptable. The SL appears to be too tall.