Help me spend money (Soma Smoothie build help needed)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

Inspired by these threads/ articles:

https://40thchainring.wordpress.com/2016/07/09/431/
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... p?t=113537
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/The_Fra ... _6881.html

I have decided I'd like to replace my S1 with a Soma Smoothie to accept larger tires and be more comfortable over Texas chipseal (race duties will be moved over to a dedicated tri bike). The geometry is pretty much bang-on. I already have a BSC Quarq that will be moving over, along with wheels and saddle. An 11-speed upgrade will be occurring at the same time, so other than the Quarq, mechanicals need to be new. I was thinking of 105 shifters and FD, along with DA RD and brake calipers. Since the ENVE fork appears to only take 25c tires, I was thinking Columbus or Ritchey, and I'm totally lost about headsets.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Snide remarks?

And @Calnago, if you see this, do you have any idea if the Shadow RD will cause an issue on this frame? I'm sadly assuming it will, and will get the older model if so.

Marin
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Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Get something with mid-reach brakes so you can run 32s tubeless. All-City Mr. Pink for example.

by Weenie


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mpulsiv
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Toby wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:58 pm
Inspired by these threads/ articles:

https://40thchainring.wordpress.com/2016/07/09/431/
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... p?t=113537
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/The_Fra ... _6881.html

I have decided I'd like to replace my S1 with a Soma Smoothie to accept larger tires and be more comfortable over Texas chipseal (race duties will be moved over to a dedicated tri bike). The geometry is pretty much bang-on. I already have a BSC Quarq that will be moving over, along with wheels and saddle. An 11-speed upgrade will be occurring at the same time, so other than the Quarq, mechanicals need to be new. I was thinking of 105 shifters and FD, along with DA RD and brake calipers. Since the ENVE fork appears to only take 25c tires, I was thinking Columbus or Ritchey, and I'm totally lost about headsets.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Snide remarks?

And @Calnago, if you see this, do you have any idea if the Shadow RD will cause an issue on this frame? I'm sadly assuming it will, and will get the older model if so.
Soma Smoothies doesn't accept wide tires. I was looking at it for a while before getting Mr. Pink.
2019 model went back to steel fork https://allcitycycles.com/blog/hot_new_ ... tric_queen, carbon fork will cost premium. If dealer can still get the 2018 frame for $1000, go for it!
It's a fastastic frame, will clear 35mm tires with Grand Cru brakes https://velo-orange.com/products/grand- ... ach-brakes. Carefully review the geometry https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/mr_pink Their 52cm is equavalent to 54cm race bike.

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Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Toby wrote:...

And @Calnago, if you see this, do you have any idea if the Shadow RD will cause an issue on this frame? I'm sadly assuming it will, and will get the older model if so.
I don’t see there being any problem at all with a frame like that and the Shadow rear derailleurs. Not sure why you are assuming there might be?
But if you want wide tires then listen to what the other guys are saying. Don’t think the derailleur would be a problem either way.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:03 am
I don’t see there being any problem at all with a frame like that and the Shadow rear derailleurs. Not sure why you are assuming there might be?
But if you want wide tires then listen to what the other guys are saying. Don’t think the derailleur would be a problem either way.
Mostly my concern was because of that colossal thread about the wheel removal issues which I hadn't fully properly remembered, and when I saw there was a chainstay bridge on the Smoothie I figured it would be too tight to the dropouts like the carbon frames with a ton of material behind the BB. This of course means I had forgotten you said steel and Ti frames tended to avoid the issue even with bridges until I reread the thread yesterday. Also I tend towards pessimism., so thank you for the information and reassurance.

As for the Mr Pink suggestions, I saw that while looking for ideas but there are a couple of issues. I'm not a fan of that paint scheme, and I don't want long-reach brakes nor need tires that fat. My S1 can only accept fat 23s or small 25s; if its replacement can handle at least narrow 28s (but ideally fat ones), that should be plenty on a steel frame to quiet down the chipseal. This bike will never see gravel.

Also, while I don't have a hardline budget for this bike, I can get an R2 from my shop for $2k. I'd like something a bit more interesting than just picking up another Cervelo, but I like the red and it'll be difficult for something to provide enough marginal benefit to spend much past that.

Parts-wise, here's my current plan.

R8000 shifters, derailleurs, brakes
Ritchey WCS 1-bolt alloy or carbon FlexLogic seatpost
Ritchey WCS carbon fork 43mm rake
Ritchey WCS Logic threadless headset
existing saddle, wheels, crankset, stem, bars

The Ritchey focus is just because the matching parts will please my OCD and they seem popular; if there's a reason to go elsewhere I'm open to it.

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Toby wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm
Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:03 am
I don’t see there being any problem at all with a frame like that and the Shadow rear derailleurs. Not sure why you are assuming there might be?
But if you want wide tires then listen to what the other guys are saying. Don’t think the derailleur would be a problem either way.
Mostly my concern was because of that colossal thread about the wheel removal issues which I hadn't fully properly remembered, and when I saw there was a chainstay bridge on the Smoothie I figured it would be too tight to the dropouts like the carbon frames with a ton of material behind the BB. This of course means I had forgotten you said steel and Ti frames tended to avoid the issue even with bridges until I reread the thread yesterday. Also I tend towards pessimism., so thank you for the information and reassurance.
Ok, I understand. I find a threshhold distance between the inside rear of the bottom bracket shell (or the rear side of the chainstay bridge in this case) to be approximately 350mm from there to the rear axle center, using a 25mm tire. Anything less than that could make rear wheel removal a little more problematic, from just very tight, to having to actually deflate the tire to get it out. Or alternatively, having to adjust the position of the rear derailleur to something more rearward than Shimano specs dictate.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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mpulsiv
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

You are trying to achieve smoother ride on chipseal with ~28mm tires on a bike that doesn't accept wide tires?
Soma Smoothie will not quiet down chipseal any better than standard aluminum frame (e.g. Allez, Emonda ALR, Canyon endurance AL, BMC Teammachine ALR).
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Marin
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Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Your best bet then would be a carbon frame that accepts 28s, and a slightly flexy (aero?) bar.

Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

A Smoothie with 28s will not quiet down chipseal compared to an S1 with 23s? Really? I have a hard time believing that, but if that's the consensus, an R2 is days away and certainly the easy/ simple option. I've seen a few people describe the Smoothie as comfortable, though, and another 5mm of tire must help.

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mpulsiv
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Toby wrote:A Smoothie with 28s will not quiet down chipseal compared to an S1 with 23s? Really? I have a hard time believing that, but if that's the consensus, an R2 is days away and certainly the easy/ simple option. I've seen a few people describe the Smoothie as comfortable, though, and another 5mm of tire must help.
Wide tire at 60 psi and will reduce vibration on chipseal but you don’t need a steel frame for that as it will not contribute to more comfort than modern aluminum frame. People who invest into steel frame tend to choose something with better tire clearance than 28mm by today’s standard. Like I said I was looking at Soma for quiet some time realizing that there’s nothing special since modern frames will clear 28mm tire. Why bother with steel?
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Marin
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

If you want steel, why not get a Richey Logic? It will clear 28s, maybe even 30s, and it will run rings around a Soma.

Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

mpulsiv wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:08 pm
Toby wrote:A Smoothie with 28s will not quiet down chipseal compared to an S1 with 23s? Really? I have a hard time believing that, but if that's the consensus, an R2 is days away and certainly the easy/ simple option. I've seen a few people describe the Smoothie as comfortable, though, and another 5mm of tire must help.
Wide tire at 60 psi and will reduce vibration on chipseal but you don’t need a steel frame for that as it will not contribute to more comfort than modern aluminum frame. People who invest into steel frame tend to choose something with better tire clearance than 28mm by today’s standard. Like I said I was looking at Soma for quiet some time realizing that there’s nothing special since modern frames will clear 28mm tire. Why bother with steel?
Well as I said, the backup possibility is an R2. There is no path where I get another aluminum frame for this, it's steel or the R2. My assumption was that the Smoothie would be, well, smoother than the R2, but maybe that's wrong. There's no "bother" with steel, and in some ways it would be simpler: my Quarq is for BSC, and I don't need a bunch of the stuff that comes with new bikes (wheels, saddle, etc). I also don't really care how fast this is, in the realm of road bikes, for training and group rides. It'll never be raced and I'm much too fat and weak for KOM hunting.

Toby
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

Marin wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:59 pm
If you want steel, why not get a Richey Logic? It will clear 28s, maybe even 30s, and it will run rings around a Soma.
Honestly? I can't get my mind around a solid sky blue bike. If I could get that in a grey, with the tire clearance of the newest one, it would be a contender.

It's also more expensive than the Smoothie, and to a degree that makes me question if it wouldn't exceed the R2 $2k.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

If you are not into chasing PR's and you won't be racing, then by all means try wide tires. You will enjoy ride quality immensely. I build my Mr. Pink specifically for this purpose, it's an endurance bike. Fine tires (e.g. I'm pointing finger at 32mm Panaracer GK 276 grams) glide over chipseal at 50 psi. In conrast, my race bike with 25mm tires beat me up on chipseal. Vibration from head to toes. Truly unpleasant experience.

By the way, you don't need to run long-reach brakes on Mr. Pink. See my picture above. I'm running Dura Ace 9000 brakes with BDOP offset brake pad holder www.bdopcycling.com/BDop%20Offset%20Holders.asp. Any short-reach brakes will work with these.
Also, Mr. Pink frame is Columbus Zona tubeset and Soma is Tange Prestige.

If you think that my paint job is too loud, take a look at 2019 model. Frame MSRP is $999
Image
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

by Weenie


Nbriles2000
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:21 am

by Nbriles2000

Personally I think all the options discussed so far are pretty poor (except the ritchey, because idk anything about it)

Tubing on Soma and All City are both unnecessarily beefy and I don't think you'll really achieve what you want with either.

Check out Black Mountain Cycles, think they use 7/4/7 tubing and they're really competitively priced. Another option is the Crust Lightning Bolt which has pretty decent 8/5/8 tubing (I believe).
The Crust is a 650b frame, but a 650b x 42 tire gives you the same bb height as ~700 x 28 and the ride quality is about so, so much better. I think Black Mountain just released the Road+ which is a 650b frame I think.

I've also heard that Fairdale's are really nice, but I don't know a whole lot about their tubing
Their Goodship ans Rockitship might be up your alley

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