Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Do you guys think you need a manual for setting up and understanding road tubeless?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:19 pm

Yes, PLEASE!
24
50%
Nah, already know it.
24
50%
 
Total votes: 48

RedbullFiXX
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:13 am

by RedbullFiXX

Calnago wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:08 am
It’s not “fud”, it’s reality. Was at a shop today and the guy was admiring my tubulars. Rather than singing praise about tubeless, he instead was saying how tubulars are actually easier than tubeless these days on the road. He said that setting up tubeless for their customers often is a two man job to get the tires on the rim. I couldn’t help but think how this is the hot tubeless topic right now on this forum.
Interesting/odd that a shop installing tires arguably more often than us diy folks, and a buisness, has so much trouble that they need 2 techs to do the job ?
Never had an issue, but yeah, tubs are nice too :thumbup:

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

I don’t know, given the amount of trouble people on this forum seem to be having mounting various tire and tube combos, can’t say I was totally surprised by his comment.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Tight beads aren’t even an issue new with tubeless. Try mounting some regular Panaracer clinchers for example. As with traditional clinchers, we have the freedom to choose tires that mount with ease like Hutchinsons, Mavics, Zipps and many others.

jlok
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by jlok

Right, you have just reminded me the tight beads of GravelKing 28c...
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It’s not just the tires. For example, Campy has two versions of their Shamal Ultras... the clincher only (non tubeless) version, then the “2way fit” version for both regular clinchers and tubeless. Unless I specifically wanted to run tubeless I’d choose the clincher only version. While i don’t care that it is a few grams lighter than the tubeless version, I do care that I can easily mount a Conti clincher on it by hand, and that’s kind of important on the road. I’m not sure about the tubeless version but I suspect it’s a tighter fit.
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Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

3Pio
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by 3Pio

Calnago wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:49 am
Yeah, sealant being used just as a flat fix has been awesome for tubular riders. Just remove the valve core, put in about 10-15ml of sealant, let it run to the hole, pump up and carry on. Easy peasy. Extremely rare that an actual spare tire needs to be put on, but I have one just in case.
I always bring with me a bottle of Tufo Extreme Sealant which work perfectly when i needed (last time i had to use month ago on almost new Vittoria Corsa G+ and month later im still on that tire and have around 600 km from the puncture for now). In this case was slow leak, so i used the sealant when i got home, since still enough air to be rideable...

Also have always with me Tufo Spare Tub which is about 135gm and fold really minimal in size..

Only once i forgot to bring the tire with me (it's in my jersey pocket, not under the saddle..). Guess what? I had sidewall puncture (Vittoria Corsa G+ with about 3000 km) , big enough that Sealant doesnt work...

Lucky for me it was allready in the town, and to have even more luck, friend arrived with car totaly random :) and he recognized me , so he bring me home (like 3-4 km from my home). Second time sealant doesnt work was on Continental Sprinter Tub, with about 5000 km on it.. Again big sidewall cut, which sealant was not able to cover... Just replaced the tub with spare and get back home (80 km from home), and this was really quick process and trouble free. To be easier to unglue tire on the road, i always bring with me Campagnolo Tyre Levers, which i found perfect for this... So until now, still did not used my phone as remedy :) , but trying to dont forget the spare tub :)

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

bm0p700f wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
Maxalami worms are the answer. sometimes you need thin worms and sometimes you need fat worms. The GI kit just has the thin worms which i have found dont seal every hole.

The problem with tubeless is not the concept but many retailers don't give sound advise if they give any at all leaving customers to gather the info from internet research or club mates which is mostly the blind leading the blind. So customers buy the tyres without knowing what they actually need to sort out problems. That is not the technologies fault.

The tubeless facts are straightforward but as is the modern way people think they are right when they are not and will tell you the earth is flat when its not. So it not the facts that are disputed it the concept of a fact that is disputed. A fact is treated more like an opinion now.

I blame the internet ironically.
Not to hijack this thread, but, i have been wondering why there isn't any "fast repair kit" for tubulars?
It would be great if there existed a fast drying glue for rubber compound paired with a salami to put in the hole (haha, couldn't resist).
Seriously, sure, we can use sealant to. But i would really like to see on the road repair kits for tubulars.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

joshatsilca
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:51 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
Maxalami worms are the answer. sometimes you need thin worms and sometimes you need fat worms. The GI kit just has the thin worms which i have found dont seal every hole.

The problem with tubeless is not the concept but many retailers don't give sound advise if they give any at all leaving customers to gather the info from internet research or club mates which is mostly the blind leading the blind. So customers buy the tyres without knowing what they actually need to sort out problems. That is not the technologies fault.

The tubeless facts are straightforward but as is the modern way people think they are right when they are not and will tell you the earth is flat when its not. So it not the facts that are disputed it the concept of a fact that is disputed. A fact is treated more like an opinion now.

I blame the internet ironically.
Not to hijack this thread, but, i have been wondering why there isn't any "fast repair kit" for tubulars?
It would be great if there existed a fast drying glue for rubber compound paired with a salami to put in the hole (haha, couldn't resist).
Seriously, sure, we can use sealant to. But i would really like to see on the road repair kits for tubulars.
Have you looked at the ZOT product from Effetto Mariposa? I've been pretty amazed at how instantly this stuff works, and it has proven capable of sealing up gashes way larger than anything you could seal with plugs. It's also sort of fun to use...

We've also had good experience with combining cotton balls with plugs for large gashes on the trailside, not a true patch, but works well and doesn't require removal of the tire.
Owner of SILCA
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Hm, well, it says

"Caffélatex has to be liquid inside the tyre when the puncture occurs (ZOT! by itself has no sealing properties, it simply accelerates Caffélatex solidification)"

So this require you have Caffelatex first! I wouldn't have that inside my tubulars.
I wouldn't pour any sealant in them before a puncture.

I have been thinking of using Gorilla super glue and a patch. But perhaps sealant should be added. Either Tufo Extreme or No tubes. Orange have no small bottles.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

mag
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Looks like there's finally some tubeless standard coming
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25764 ... atters-you

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

mag wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:37 pm
Looks like there's finally some tubeless standard coming
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25764 ... atters-you

TL;DR version: It's UST.

sychen
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:06 pm

by sychen

I'll only be moving to tubeless if the standard is adopted by the majority.. This is a good step forward.



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stiffnezz1
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:34 pm

by stiffnezz1

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:01 pm
mag wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:37 pm
Looks like there's finally some tubeless standard coming
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25764 ... atters-you

TL;DR version: It's UST.
dont know why none of the other big players adoped road ust that was announced over a year ago. Dont know who is out there pushing for ISO and ETRTO standards update but they are the real MVP in the tubeless game.(probably Mavic)

rudye9mr
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

just adding to the convo with the hope it helps someone else as well....

running jet4+ which iirc are the same spec as the Belgium Plus rims.

I'm using:

-schwalbe pro 1 23c - minimal use of tire lever, 2 layers of HED supplied tape, stan's tubeless valves and orange sealant...(80psi - final pressure)

-irc pro formula rbcc 23c - PITA with 2 tire levers to get on, 2 layers HED supplied tape, stan's tubeless valve and orange sealant..(75psi- final pressure)

As it's my first foray into tubeless, both took me a while to get the hang of setting up the tires on the rims and i reckon sealant is critical to get the beads to set...

the irc pro formula rbcc seems to be a narrower fit on the rim at final pressure (went up to 80psi as well) and as per HED's recommendation, should have a better aero fit as they initally recomment the conti force and attack combo which are 22c and 23c (older version) - that have been updated to a 23c and 25c...but are clinchers...

pump used -joe blow booster - i don't think any tubeless set up above would have been possible without this pump...

by Weenie


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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

My experience:
Sealant:
No sealant I've used works with road tubeless except Orange Sealant (thanks for the tip Tobin). There are many rebadged versions of Stans such as Schwalbe Blue etc. On some tires they seal at lower pressures about 30-40 psi but add more air and they just leak back down.

Tires:
Schwalbe Pro One, lovely but too soft and punctured too easily.
Schwalbe G One, tough and long lasting but not really fast enough for pure road riding. A fast gravel tire that doesn't really deal with gravel that well due to lack of side knobs, works well as a commuter tire though.
Panaracer Race A Evo 3. Not as nice in handling as the normal version and very expensive. Lasts well but a pig to install as it's so tight.

Tape: I've used Gorilla tape for years on MTB as Stans tape isn't that good especially doesn't stick well in humid conditions. Most good generic tapes work pretty well but getting the right width is absolutely the most important thing. My wheels are DT Swiss and their tape is excellent and lasts for ages, may buy some reels even though it isn't cheap. Much prefer it to rim tape even if running tubes tubeless tape seems much kinder on tubes than rim tape with less hard edges.

The takeaway: I like road tubeless up to a point and if my local shops and national internet had anything worth buying I'd at least set up my front wheel tubeless where I can set and forget for probably 4000kms. As it is some international postal services aren't super stoked on sending any kind of liquid through the mail so Orange Seal is hard to get here, can't find tire worms and any tire exept Schwalbes not easy or impossible to find. If I could pop down to my local shop or go locally online and get Hutchinson Tires and Orange sealant I'd be keen but the 10 day postal thing and maybe never getting my stuff just makes it more hassle than it's worth. I also think there should be some kind of push towards standardization from the manufacturers as some tire/wheel combos don't work together so people give up or need compressors and that damages the reputation of tubeless.

Not bashing, if I lived somewhere else I might well be running tubeless. Probably a Huntchinson/Orange seal combo on my DT Swiss.

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