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Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
by bm0p700f
Maxalami worms are the answer. sometimes you need thin worms and sometimes you need fat worms. The GI kit just has the thin worms which i have found dont seal every hole.

The problem with tubeless is not the concept but many retailers don't give sound advise if they give any at all leaving customers to gather the info from internet research or club mates which is mostly the blind leading the blind. So customers buy the tyres without knowing what they actually need to sort out problems. That is not the technologies fault.

The tubeless facts are straightforward but as is the modern way people think they are right when they are not and will tell you the earth is flat when its not. So it not the facts that are disputed it the concept of a fact that is disputed. A fact is treated more like an opinion now.

I blame the internet ironically.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
by Weenie

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:23 pm
by Marin
bm0p700f wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
the concept of a fact that is disputed. A fact is treated more like an opinion now.

I blame the internet ironically.
We're waving the Enlightenment goodbye actually. Would be great if that only affected tubeless.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:51 am
by jlok
I'd definitely love to see the other's tubeless experience. I have used all three tire systems and have to appreciate the tips and advice here. They made my first step into tubular so much easier. I hope the same would happen on tubeless.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:32 am
by tommasini
Not an apples to apples bit of added information.....but......

it was interesting to experiance renting a mountain bike this week from a very popular shop in oregon......and it came with tubed tires. The trails there have many sharp rocks on the trails. I specifically asked about this and their response was that people renting generally dont want to put up with the mess/tight bead troubles of tire removal/install if they had tubeless.

Just an observation.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 am
by Calnago
I was riding one day last week at a good clip. Guy in blingy kit, nice bike, etc. up ahead a bit. He takes the sidewalk over a bridge, and I stay with traffic on the main road. I’m almost beside him when a big loud “psssst” goes off and all of a sudden his rear wheel is spewing sealant everywhere like some spinning fireworks display. It was really quite spectacular from the side view. I don’t know how much he had in there but it sure seemed like a good supply. He had to stop. Had I been behind him I would have been covered in sealant. He and his bike must have been a mess. Hope he had some of the worms and/or plugs and maybe a spare innertube, and a supply of wipes to clean things up a bit afterwards.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:19 am
by Jugi

tommasini wrote:...

it was interesting to experiance rentinI specifically asked about this and their response was that people renting generally dont want to put up with the mess/tight bead troubles of tire removal/install if they had tubeless.
For the general population, a bicycle's wheel is known to contain an outer tire and an inner tire. People don't understand the concept of tubeless, and definetly not a tubeless tire with some sealant for added protection. What they don't understand they won't rent, superior performance won't be appreciated.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:11 am
by bm0p700f
calnago why does that never happen to me. Maybe some tyres are more prone to this than others. I top up so infrequently that often I run tubeless without sealant. I replaced my worn out IRC formula pro light tyres after 5800km. The rear had gone past the wear marker, the front was getting close.

There was barely a mark on the tyres. a few cuts but nothing that caused a problem. The front tyre had no sealant in it. I had been riding it like that probably for months.

That guy you saw might have converted a conti GP 4000s to tubeless for all you know. people get all kinds of tubeless issues that i somehow avoid. Maybe the issues are avoidable.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:20 am
by NickJHP
Calnago wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 am
I was riding one day last week at a good clip. Guy in blingy kit, nice bike, etc. up ahead a bit. He takes the sidewalk over a bridge, and I stay with traffic on the main road. I’m almost beside him when a big loud “psssst” goes off and all of a sudden his rear wheel is spewing sealant everywhere like some spinning fireworks display. It was really quite spectacular from the side view. I don’t know how much he had in there but it sure seemed like a good supply. He had to stop. Had I been behind him I would have been covered in sealant. He and his bike must have been a mess. Hope he had some of the worms and/or plugs and maybe a spare innertube, and a supply of wipes to clean things up a bit afterwards.
I use worms for preference, but I still carry a spare tube, because if the puncture is too severe (I once had a cut about 10mm long in the tread), I resort to booting the tyre and installing a tube. I carry the tube in an old sock, which gives me something to use for wiping up/off sealant.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:35 am
by Jugi

bm0p700f wrote: That guy you saw might have converted a conti GP 4000s to tubeless for all you know. people get all kinds of tubeless issues that i somehow avoid. Maybe the issues are avoidable.
Or the quy ran over a shard of glass, which sliced the tire and created a large slow leak, which is always the hardest one for sealant to seal (large surface area and relatively slow air flow through the puncture). If there was "spectacular sealant spray" observed, I'd say exactly that is a sign of a slice through the tire. That's a big problem for road tire's relatively small air volume.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:41 am
by tarmackev
I had a few issues with 23mm Hutchinson tubeless tyres not sealing over 75psi and squirting Stans sealant everywhere on more than one occasion.
I’ve had better luck with 25mm Schwalbe Ones.
It’s straight forward once you get used to fitting them. Barely any more fuss than clinchers.
I always take a spare tube on the road just in case but punctures are now very rare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm
by Calnago
bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:11 am
calnago why does that never happen to me. Maybe some tyres are more prone to this than others. I top up so infrequently that often I run tubeless without sealant. I replaced my worn out IRC formula pro light tyres after 5800km. The rear had gone past the wear marker, the front was getting close.

There was barely a mark on the tyres. a few cuts but nothing that caused a problem. The front tyre had no sealant in it. I had been riding it like that probably for months.

That guy you saw might have converted a conti GP 4000s to tubeless for all you know. people get all kinds of tubeless issues that i somehow avoid. Maybe the issues are avoidable.
Can't say why it never happens to you. Lot of stuff that happens to other folks with bikes never happens to me either. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and I can acknowledge that, especially when I see it. Could it be avoided, possibly, possibly not. Depends on the situation and circumstances.

Jugi wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:19 am
tommasini wrote:...it was interesting to experiance rentinI specifically asked about this and their response was that people renting generally dont want to put up with the mess/tight bead troubles of tire removal/install if they had tubeless.
For the general population, a bicycle's wheel is known to contain an outer tire and an inner tire. People don't understand the concept of tubeless, and definetly not a tubeless tire with some sealant for added protection. What they don't understand they won't rent, superior performance won't be appreciated.
Or in the alternative, they fully understand it and simply chose the system that works best for them. Personal preference and all.

bm0p700f wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:37 am
...The tubeless facts are straightforward but as is the modern way people think they are right when they are not and will tell you the earth is flat when its not. So it not the facts that are disputed it the concept of a fact that is disputed. A fact is treated more like an opinion now.
And on the other side of the same coin, people often treat opinions as facts (same thing I guess) and then it becomes a matter of one man's fact being another's opinion, and vice versa. Fact versus opinion is much grayer when talking about tubeless tire technology than discussing whether the earth is flat or not.


I know it might sound like I'm against tubeless altogether. Not at all, if that's your thing have at it. I happen to run tubulars and take sealant with me in the event I do get a flat. I also have a nicely packed spare tubular under my saddle as total insurance. I haven't needed to use it in so long it's crazy, but I'm sure the ride I leave it at home will be the ride I need it.

What I find funny that often occurs when new technologies are introduced, is the incessant "evangelism" that some users seem to adopt. I believe that if a new technology is that great, it gets adopted very very quickly, as it's easy for everyone to see the benefits and pitfalls and the greater the benefits the quicker the adoption rate. But if there are any questions as to the utility of the benefits over the hassle of the pitfalls, then people are a little more reluctant to change, and may not even want to especially if they feel that for them the pitfalls outweight the benefits. And you end up having two camps. Both valid for each set of preferences.

An often cited example from the past regarding resistance to change or slow adoption is when combined shift/brake levers were introduced. I believe people who say that this change was very slow were not into cycling at the time. I was, and remember seeing the first set of Campy Record Ergo (or equivalent Shimano) levers. They really were a no brainer and I could see the benefits immediately, with no downside or pitfalls. I don't know anyone at that time who said... "well, yeah that seems pretty slick but I like having to take my hands off the bars and reach down to shift my gears". I don't even remember any arguments. Just all of a sudden, anyone who got a new bike seemed to get the new brake/shift levers provided they could afford it. Or would get a new bike for this feature even if they didn't need one. It certainly has not been that way with tubeless tire technology for the road.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:51 pm
by TobinHatesYou
Who’s getting evangelical about tubeless in here? Also this is a tubeless thread...

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:37 pm
by F45
I like road tubeless - the changes that it brought make using latex tubes much easier, such as: Tubeless tape being smoother and easier on latex, tubeless profile rims giving a rounder inner space for the tube instead of expanding into the space between the bead and bottom of the rim, and high performance sealant that works really well with latex tubes.

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:07 pm
by mattr
Calnago wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm
Or in the alternative, they fully understand it and simply chose the system that works best for them. Personal preference and all.
Nah. You give people far too much credit.
I know many people who on the face of it are keen mtbers or roadies, bikes costing in the thousands, always current or nearly current gear who will just look at you blankly if you ask anything about tyres other than brand and size.
Don't even know the difference between tubeless and tubular. (There was even someone on here who didn't know the difference)

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:07 pm
by Weenie

Re: Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:09 pm
by nycebo
Calnago wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm
I happen to run tubulars and take sealant with me in the event I do get a flat. I also have a nicely packed spare tubular under my saddle as total insurance. I haven't needed to use it in so long it's crazy, but I'm sure the ride I leave it at home will be the ride I need it.
THIS! Dude! I almost spit up my coffee when you wrote that. A number of years ago, I was an early adopter of road tubeless on those Hutchinson tires and Shimano wheels. Had ridden almost 2 years without any incident. One day, after washing my bike, I forgot to put my saddle bag on the bike. As you forecast, the next day when I went off for a ride, my tire got gouged, sealant couldn't seal and I had to limp (make that walk) home. Thankfully I was only doing laps in the park nearby.

Lessons to live by. Always be prepared!