Would you like to see the mist around Road tubeless cleared? (help me!)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Do you guys think you need a manual for setting up and understanding road tubeless?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:19 pm

Yes, PLEASE!
24
50%
Nah, already know it.
24
50%
 
Total votes: 48

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Frankie - B
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by Frankie - B

Okay,

In my eyes Road Tubeless is (as disc brakes, but that is another can of worms) the way forward for us road cyclists. My head is full of information like 'how to', trouble shooting, what works together with what and getto tubeless.

Would you be interested in this info, please vote!

Also, please add what you would like to see.
'Tape was made to wrap your GF's gifts, NOT hold a freakin tire on.'
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dvq
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

I already know everything I need to know on setting tubeless up, but certainly having a resource for people who don't know would help clear up a lot of misinformation.

by Weenie


kode54
Posts: 1621
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
3. i must be doing something wrong and have better luck with tubes than tubeless. tried another tape (wrapped 2x around spoke holes).
4. messy...and having more than one bike, i can never keep track of how 'fresh' my sealant was in what bike.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Such a post won't work. I have thought about doing one as well. The tubeless thread turn into arguments sometimes and then the tubeless facts are not agreed. A single thread may stop the proliferation on tubeless threads but that's all it will do.

c60rider
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:52 pm
Such a post won't work. I have thought about doing one as well. The tubeless thread turn into arguments sometimes and then the tubeless facts are not agreed. A single thread may stop the proliferation on tubeless threads but that's all it will do.
But that's the problem with tubeless. The facts are not agreed and that's what puts people off tubeless. Clinchers and tubs are straightforward and reliable.

JScycle
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 pm

by JScycle

kode54 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:47 pm
i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
3. i must be doing something wrong and have better luck with tubes than tubeless. tried another tape (wrapped 2x around spoke holes).
4. messy...and having more than one bike, i can never keep track of how 'fresh' my sealant was in what bike.
1. Did you not have a spare tube to fix your puncture? Tubeless generally means less flats but doesn't mean no flats/don't bring a tube
2. Was this special tubeless tape? if so what brand
3. Any idea would be to add an item on strava. For example add a tyre (not sure if you can add custom options). You can put in when the item/sealant was new and then you can see how many km it has done and how old it is

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silvalis
Posts: 702
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

kode54 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:47 pm
i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
3. i must be doing something wrong and have better luck with tubes than tubeless. tried another tape (wrapped 2x around spoke holes).
4. messy...and having more than one bike, i can never keep track of how 'fresh' my sealant was in what bike.
1. Did you try the plastic wrapper inside the tyre trick? Alternatively carry worms/dynaplug/etc
2. I guess the other tape in 3. worked better? IIRC Stans recommended 2x wrap for road tubeless.
4. Yeah it's messy. Although unless you are trying to juggle 3 or 4 bikes with sealant I don't really see this as an issue. Write it down somewhere?


I did 4 different road tubeless tyres before I bailed. There were too many other regular tyres I wanted to try :lol:
Chasse patate

rlpaul
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:25 pm

by rlpaul

Just like tubulars, going tubeless takes time to get right. It'll be messy (hellllllooooo tire gluing tubular, sealing for tubeless) until you get used to doing it. I think this puts a lot of people off.

I think if people are serious about it, two things are required. An information post would be a great start. But I think coupled with that we'd need a long term ride report, or something similar, that people can refer to that shows why tubless is a good thing. If all people see is the mess, it'll just be a turn off. But examples of "went for a ride, came back fine even though a new hole showed up in the tire" or "chip seal road feels smoother" or whatever.

Without the carrot, I think a lot of people will just give up before they really get used to dealing with it.

Marin
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Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

c60rider wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:03 am
tubs are straightforward and reliable.
Lol :shock:

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WinterRider
Posts: 564
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by WinterRider

Been thru the 'tubeless cycle' .. I'll never to back to tubes. Mounted a tire tubed the other day to check out a rim build.. whew the 'olden days' ride. Ride tubeless for some miles and your hooked.

Much .. of the tubeless noise is the failure to adapt .. --->learn the system and accept the changes to your gear carried for repair. Easier IMO than removing the wheel and chging out the tube.

Tubeless installation .. get the tire lever jack. Lube the friction areas .. a couple minute job.. done. Tape .. the November brand Tesa tape .. or same flavor. Can be peeled off sans the residue .. goes on nicely. TRICK is.. tire interference fit to tape job ... the tire should inflate w a floor pump IMExperience. PROBLEM is .. this 'tubeless compatible' drivel .. the tire is tubeless or it is not. Goes to future remounting of a worn tire to rim fit. "compatible" is marketing bullsh*t... the source of much of the noise via tubeless.

The UST standard for tubeless is definitely a step forward .. stating the specs for hook design and retaining well for the tire .. keeping the bead mostly in place against the rim outer wall while flat. A well used 'compatible' tire makes this standardized rim useless ... one gets 'hung'.. 4 wheel ride home time... done that. Simply run the rubber recommended here.

Sealants .. dry due to air exchange .. air leaking and it's replacement. My issue was value holes seeping .. solved in my case by cutting out the valve hole tape cleanly so the valve seated firmly into rim. Push down very firmly on the valve base and tighten the nut firm (use a weak thread locker once set)... I get no leaks using this routine. I do check a tire in water before sealant addition .. bead seepage (slow ideal) rate and a check of the valve which should show nothing. Low air exchange means the Orange Endurance requires less top-offs. IMO Stan's is a better choice.. IF .. no cold weather. No value leakage.. "toggling"-- air loss when refilling air ... job one.

Understand the interference fit between tire bead and rim .. get the on-the-road tools to repair .. use a real tubeless tire .. use the tubes for the neighbors and friends.

Now reluctantly I'm messing w sealant recipes... just started. The commercial guys want the repeat sales... counter to their bottom line. Finish Line sealant does not dry.. if it'll seal reliably is the question per flats. IMO it's just Elmer's Glue water based formula w grit .. it does prevent air seepage over the top of Orange that has dried.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 2 yrs from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

kode54
Posts: 1621
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

silvalis wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:52 am
kode54 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:47 pm
i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
3. i must be doing something wrong and have better luck with tubes than tubeless. tried another tape (wrapped 2x around spoke holes).
4. messy...and having more than one bike, i can never keep track of how 'fresh' my sealant was in what bike.
1. Did you try the plastic wrapper inside the tyre trick? Alternatively carry worms/dynaplug/etc
2. I guess the other tape in 3. worked better? IIRC Stans recommended 2x wrap for road tubeless.
4. Yeah it's messy. Although unless you are trying to juggle 3 or 4 bikes with sealant I don't really see this as an issue. Write it down somewhere?


I did 4 different road tubeless tyres before I bailed. There were too many other regular tyres I wanted to try :lol:
no, didn't try the wrapper inside tire...thought that only worked on tire/tube combo, not tubeless since you'll lose most of the sealant when taking the tire off to put in the wrapper.
i do have a dynaplug, but didn't have it on the ride that day.

yes, 2X wrap using the Enve tape that was supplied by Enve with all tubeless set ups. 90% of the spoke holes were almost split open. you can see the air pressure pushing into the spoke hole cavity.

yeah, i was writing it down. although keeping track wasn't that great. at times, the sealant dried up or settled on one side of the tire due to lack of use on one bike.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

kode54
Posts: 1621
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

JScycle wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:23 am
kode54 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:47 pm
i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
3. i must be doing something wrong and have better luck with tubes than tubeless. tried another tape (wrapped 2x around spoke holes).
4. messy...and having more than one bike, i can never keep track of how 'fresh' my sealant was in what bike.
1. Did you not have a spare tube to fix your puncture? Tubeless generally means less flats but doesn't mean no flats/don't bring a tube
2. Was this special tubeless tape? if so what brand
3. Any idea would be to add an item on strava. For example add a tyre (not sure if you can add custom options). You can put in when the item/sealant was new and then you can see how many km it has done and how old it is
yes, i had a spare tube...but my first puncture with tubeless...it was a mess. i wasn't too far from the house and i didn't want to deal with it while in the dark morning hours.

yes, tubeless tape that came with the Enve wheelset. i then tried another tape from Stans.

good idea on the addition on Strava. i had a sheet for each bike...mainly for when i waxed the chain. then, going to tubeless added another layer on top of that. didn't ride one bike as much as others, so sealant dried on one spot.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

dvq
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

I didn't think a thread about organizing some tubeless FAQ would turn into a tubeless debate thread...

... oh wait, of course it would.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

^ ok, that was funny. :)
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NickJHP
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

kode54 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:47 pm
i've tried tubeless...and went back to tubes. mainly for these reasons...

1. after 500+ miles, got a puncture that sealant couldn't seal. i had to uber home.
2. got a flat 1000+ going in...the tape that covers the spoke holes blew through...another uber home.
1. Tyre worms are your answer here. I got a puncture on tubeless about a week ago - 4mm long slit through the tread that the sealant couldn't cope with. Stuffed a tyre worm in the slit, spun the wheel and inflated the tyre, cut off the excess worm and was on my way. No need to remove the tyre from the wheel or the wheel from the bike, total elapsed time a few minutes. Plus my tubeless repair kit weighs 5g: https://www.genuineinnovations.com/au/p ... ir-kit.php
2. Haven't had this happen. For road, where pressures are higher, I use one layer of tape the full width of the rim bed, and a second layer of 12mm wide tape in the centre of the rim bed over the spoke holes.

by Weenie


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