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Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:13 pm
by shimmeD
You guys go play with your evidence and scientific data; I don't need any for this. I just have to imagine pedaling after adding a block of wood between my pedal and shoe: no thanks, less is better. :up: Ghisallo

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:13 pm
by Weenie

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:15 am
by AyBee
wheelbuilder wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:25 pm
AyBee wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:33 pm
JScycle wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:16 am
(a lower stack height is better for power transfer).
Evidence?
Seriously?
Absolutely - if someone is recommending spending an extra £50 for DA pedals over Ultegra pedals based on about 4mm less stack, I'm interested in knowing where the evidence is that it's better for power transfer and how much real world difference it actually makes, what's wrong with that?

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:36 pm
by madik
DA pedals does have a different construction with much improved bearings system which increasing pedals stiffness and makes it run smoother. DA does use two sets of balls bearings, one under the cleat and second next to the bolt for attaching to the cranks. And also a needle bearing, I actually didn't know that!

Ultegra have a combination of bushing on the pedal axle and two sets of ball bearings only under the cleats close to each other (small tilting stiffness). This was the reason why I switched from Ultegra pedals to the DA. DA is really another story and lower stack height is just a part of it. Ultegra and 105 are pretty much the same except a bit lower weight on the Ultegra one.
TBH ultegra is fine enough but just the much refined and advanced construction of DA is why I wanted them.
Here are some schematics of DA pedals:
Image
Image

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:52 pm
by MayhemSWE
madik wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:36 pm
DA does use two sets of balls bearings, one under the cleat and second next to the bolt for attaching to the cranks. And also a needle bearing, I actually didn't know that!
Comparing the parts diagrams of the previous generation PD-9000 against the latest PD-R9100 it seems the needle bearing has been removed.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:55 pm
by CrankAddictsRich
What about the differences between 9000 and 9100 pedals? I have 9000 pedals on all of my bikes and they're great. It looks like there are at least some small cosmetic differences, but I'm not sure if there are any actual performance differences.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:03 pm
by madik
MayhemSWE wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:52 pm
madik wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:36 pm
DA does use two sets of balls bearings, one under the cleat and second next to the bolt for attaching to the cranks. And also a needle bearing, I actually didn't know that!
Comparing the parts diagrams of the previous generation PD-9000 against the latest PD-R9100 it seems the needle bearing has been removed.
Yeah I see, thanks. Then probably both schematics are from 9000 or 7900 pedals.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:17 pm
by MayhemSWE
madik wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:03 pm
Yeah I see, thanks. Then probably both schematics are from 9000 or 7900 pedals.
For the two images you posted up above, the upper one is PD-R9100 and the lower is PD-9000.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:20 pm
by Antoine
I have DA on my first bike, Ultegra on my second and 105 on my track bike.
DA is really the best and I don't see any difference in fonction between Ultegra and 105

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:52 pm
by wheelbuilder
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:55 pm
What about the differences between 9000 and 9100 pedals? I have 9000 pedals on all of my bikes and they're great. It looks like there are at least some small cosmetic differences, but I'm not sure if there are any actual performance differences.
I have both........Slightly lighter. Strike plate is no longer replaceable. No graphics on sides.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:49 pm
by mpulsiv
In case you are curious, 9000 pedals are 248 grams and 9100 pedals are 234 grams.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/04/shimano ... als-review

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:17 pm
by BdaGhisallo
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:55 pm
What about the differences between 9000 and 9100 pedals? I have 9000 pedals on all of my bikes and they're great. It looks like there are at least some small cosmetic differences, but I'm not sure if there are any actual performance differences.
I don’t know what they changed but the exit from the 9100 is far more positive than the 9000 pedals. I always found the 9000 a little mushy on the release, especially with the blue cleats. The 9100 is much firmer and I much prefer the sensation.

In use I can feel no difference between the two in how they feel and how the cleat moves around.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:23 pm
by mpulsiv
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:17 pm
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:55 pm
What about the differences between 9000 and 9100 pedals? I have 9000 pedals on all of my bikes and they're great. It looks like there are at least some small cosmetic differences, but I'm not sure if there are any actual performance differences.
I don’t know what they changed but the exit from the 9100 is far more positive than the 9000 pedals. I always found the 9000 a little mushy on the release, especially with the blue cleats. The 9100 is much firmer and I much prefer the sensation.

In use I can feel no difference between the two in how they feel and how the cleat moves around.
Mushy is the sign of wear & tear in the spring release. My new 9000 were much firmer than used.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:52 pm
by Calnago
Pretty good summary finally arrived at in this thread. Really, you can’t go wrong with either Ultegra or Dura-Ace. I have a set of Ultegras that I use for testing/riding bikes that have a different pedal system installed.
My own bikes have a mix of 9000/9100 pedals. Differences were outlined above... 14g lighter for the 9100, but the 9100 do not have the needle bearing. I liked the idea of the needle bearing but both types have been absolutely trouble free. I think any difference in feel would come down to either the level of wear on your cleats, the tension adjustment, or the type of cleat you’re using (yellow, blue, red). I use the red. You can be fooled a bit if you let your cleats get too worn before replacing. When you replace them and just jump back on your bike it’s a good idea to practice releasing a few times to just “reset” your muscle memory of what it takes to release them, especially if your old ones were really worn.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 pm
by jeffy
Dura Ace are much faster.

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 pm
by Weenie

Re: Pedals - Dura Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:54 pm
by BdaGhisallo
mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:23 pm
BdaGhisallo wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:17 pm
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:55 pm
What about the differences between 9000 and 9100 pedals? I have 9000 pedals on all of my bikes and they're great. It looks like there are at least some small cosmetic differences, but I'm not sure if there are any actual performance differences.
I don’t know what they changed but the exit from the 9100 is far more positive than the 9000 pedals. I always found the 9000 a little mushy on the release, especially with the blue cleats. The 9100 is much firmer and I much prefer the sensation.

In use I can feel no difference between the two in how they feel and how the cleat moves around.
Mushy is the sign of wear & tear in the spring release. My new 9000 were much firmer than used.
I have compared brand new and unused 9000 and 9100 pedals with the same shoes and cleats and the difference is very apparent.