Tour Mag. disc brake vs. rim brake test

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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taodemon
Posts: 67
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Location: Massachusetts

by taodemon

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:34 am
Paging dvq so he can confirm the story of how his ENVE SES 6.7s delaminated/bubbled after 3 years and approximately 25000mi.

dvq weighs ~150lbs, climbs a lot and is a skilled descender. Even in perfect dry conditions, I would end up passing him down the steepest 12-15% technical descents when he was still on rim brakes. I don’t pass him now that he’s swapped his rim-brake SSEvo for a disc Venge ViAS.

You really have to be on the ragged edge, nearly drifting wide off the road to realize how much much more confidence the feel and consistency of disc-brakes gives you. The trail-braking on a disc bike is sublime. There is no comparison and it doesn’t really matter what a “brake power” test indicates.
So he went from a non aero bike to an aero bike and you think he is faster downhill because of the change in brakes?? :unbelievable:

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

taodemon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:32 pm

So he went from a non aero bike to an aero bike and you think he is faster downhill because of the change in brakes?? :unbelievable:

We don't have long straight alpine descents here. Everything is technical. Mt. Hamilton has over 200 corners. It's almost all from cornering/braking confidence.

e: dvq informs me it's 365 corners.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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taodemon
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Location: Massachusetts

by taodemon

Looking at the top times down hamilton even ignoring the pros in 2011 on rim brakes, most of the top times from what I can tell (riders who have pictures of their bikes), are all rim brakes?

I mean sure, maybe having more confidence in the brakes allows one to open up the speeds a bit more then they would have otherwise for those of us who worry about making it home alive, but I don't think it is the braking itself that is making anyone faster, including dvq on his ViAS which is significantly more aero than his evo. Even with all those turns going down hamiliton, a ViAS vs an evo would likely be a big difference even if both had the same exact brakes.

dvq
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

taodemon wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:32 pm
So he went from a non aero bike to an aero bike and you think he is faster downhill because of the change in brakes?? :unbelievable:
I'd say my speed down these segments he's talking about started dropping off significantly after about a month of descending on disc brakes, basically familiarizing myself and relearning brake points and effort required for certain types of braking. The steeper descents over 15% was a drastic immediate improvement, its not just confidence, but sheer ability to actually stop in reasonable amount of distance without worrying about melting some clinchers.

dvq
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

Beaver wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:47 pm

We also had one delaminated Enve rim here. BUT it's always the first generation brake track. Have you seen delaminated 2nd gen. Enve, Zipp showstopper, Campy AC3? These also evolved.
I also pointed out to you on page 1 that a little over 1 year of riding for me in good weather meant about half the life of the newer generation brake track of the ENVEs being worn down. I'm not sure I want to find out what happens after 2 years and significant brake track material is lost. Will they delaminate as well at that point? I decided not to keep them long enough to find out.

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Beaver
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Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

dvq wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Beaver wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:47 pm

We also had one delaminated Enve rim here. BUT it's always the first generation brake track. Have you seen delaminated 2nd gen. Enve, Zipp showstopper, Campy AC3? These also evolved.
I also pointed out to you on page 1 that a little over 1 year of riding for me in good weather meant about half the life of the newer generation brake track of the ENVEs being worn down. I'm not sure I want to find out what happens after 2 years and significant brake track material is lost. Will they delaminate as well at that point? I decided not to keep them long enough to find out.
And I asked for more reports about this issue and nobody complained. :noidea:

Did the wheels see a lot of dirt and rain? How often did you clean them?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Things I don’t have to worry about with disc brakes: Cleaning rims so they don’t abrade faster.

dvq
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

Beaver wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am
dvq wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Beaver wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:47 pm

We also had one delaminated Enve rim here. BUT it's always the first generation brake track. Have you seen delaminated 2nd gen. Enve, Zipp showstopper, Campy AC3? These also evolved.
I also pointed out to you on page 1 that a little over 1 year of riding for me in good weather meant about half the life of the newer generation brake track of the ENVEs being worn down. I'm not sure I want to find out what happens after 2 years and significant brake track material is lost. Will they delaminate as well at that point? I decided not to keep them long enough to find out.
And I asked for more reports about this issue and nobody complained. :noidea:

Did the wheels see a lot of dirt and rain? How often did you clean them?
California climbing, plenty of sunshine and always gotta keep that bike clean.

C36
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Beaver wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:53 pm
C36 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:52 am
For those who read German what is Tour feedback regarding bikes behaviours in dynamic? As posted above, leCycle reported “poorer” behaviour , something matching my 2 tests of SS evo2.
Riding dynamics have not been mentioned in the Tour test. What did you experience with the disc bike compared to rim brake?
#1: I felt the bikes less "reactives" at the moment to accelerate either on the flat or clibimg. Descending, except on the braking side I maybe felt a bit more stability on the disc bik.
First test was on a 54 SS-Evo2 HM and the second one on a 50 SS-Evo2 HM (I had a 54 SS EVO-1 HM and after a fit + stolen bike I replaced it with a 50 SS Evo-2 HM). The second test was more representative since my fit was perfect (used my seat-post-saddle) the only difference, my bike had eeBrakes upgrades but had GPS and the disc bike had lighter tubes than the std ones I had). Wheels were both the Cannondale Hollowgram and tires the same michelins in 25.

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Miller
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Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

cunn1n9 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:16 pm
So I picked up a new Trek Boone today for some CX/gravel adventures. Set it to my positions and took it for a spin. A lot of fun being able to launch off the tarmac into grass and dirt and whatever without a second thought.
Reason to tell you this is that it is my first disc brake bike. TBH I am underwhelmed by the brakes (SRAM Rival). They work perfectly well but the thing is that I think my road bike with alloy rims and rim brakes stops equally as well. My bike with Zipp 303s and Zipp pads is not far behind either.
Not decrying your experience but give your brakes a week or so and see how you feel. Discs do take some miles to properly bed in and the braking characteristics can change quite dramatically.

Yes, great fun to launch off tarmac into the wild, I fully agree.

mattr
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by mattr

Miller wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Discs do take some miles to properly bed in and the braking characteristics can change quite dramatically.
?? Few hundred metres to get them bedded in. Then no change until either the pads wear out, the disc wears out, or your caliper springs a leak.

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Miller
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by Miller

More than that in my experience but whatever...

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Miller wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:29 pm
More than that in my experience but whatever...
My rotors are probably 99% stopping power after a couple hundred meters. My bed-in process is always the same. I ride out my driveway and down the 15% grade immediately beyond it. I alternate braking between both front and back and I can feel the friction force increasing. This all happens in about 200m.

dvq
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:36 pm

by dvq

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:47 pm
Miller wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:29 pm
More than that in my experience but whatever...
My rotors are probably 99% stopping power after a couple hundred meters. My bed-in process is always the same. I ride out my driveway and down the 15% grade immediately beyond it. I alternate braking between both front and back and I can feel the friction force increasing. This all happens in about 200m.
I don't live on top of a hill so I have to use a bunch of short 30mph sprint/stops using front brake only, then rear brake only. It really only takes 10-15 minutes, but I'm exhausted after.

by Weenie


mattr
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Miller wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:29 pm
More than that in my experience but whatever...
I've probably done 50 sets of brakes and 200 or 300 sets of pads in the last half dozen years. Only time it takes longer is if its really cold or icy.......
Last edited by mattr on Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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