Tour Mag. disc brake vs. rim brake test

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Stueys
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:40 am

If you've got a stable of rim-brake bikes and wheelsets, then sure, maybe delay the transition as long as you think is feasible, but at some point it's just not going to make sense and I feel most people should actually work on paring down / selling their superfluous rim-brake equipment while it still has resale value.
This. The debate was done sometime ago, the only question now is when to make the leap.

zappafile123
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by zappafile123

The reality is that rim brake bikes and their components are not going anywhere anytime soon. If anything your latest disc set-up is whats going to become obsolete very fast e.g. post-mount vs. flat mount, not to mention axles and the like. The pressure to buy a disc bike is an illusion created to make you spend money. Its going to be at least 10 years before sourcing parts for rim-brake set-up starts to become a problem. Even then some manufacturers may continue to make rim brake products indefinately meaning that there is in reality no pressure to convert. Thus, ride with your hassle free, lighter and almost just as effective rim brake setups to your hearts content and hold off on the disc brake headache until at least 3rd gen Dura-ace Hydro (we've just had our first generation, and believe me, there's heaps of warranty problems with the levers).
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by Weenie


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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Stueys wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:40 am

If you've got a stable of rim-brake bikes and wheelsets, then sure, maybe delay the transition as long as you think is feasible, but at some point it's just not going to make sense and I feel most people should actually work on paring down / selling their superfluous rim-brake equipment while it still has resale value.
This. The debate was done sometime ago, the only question now is when to make the leap.
We wait for next generation of disc brakes, when they actually outperform rim brakes. For those of you who still complain about rim brakes, you either have poor calipers, poor brake track on your wheels, poor brake pads or poor braking technique.

I was rolling when Greipel switched back to a rim brake for stage 2, saying he had more confidence with rim brake.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Post-mount brakes can be adapted to flat-mounts. Post-mount brakes won’t go away because they are the standard on MTBs. Thru-axle standards don’t really matter because hub endcaps are almost always interchangeable.

Where is your rim-brake 2019 Venge or SystemSix? Where is the rim-brake Defy? Sure, OEM rim-brake calipers will be available for a while, but bikes like the new rim-brake Madone have proprietary brakes... So what’s the difference? I’ll be able to upgrade to different calipers like I recently did with Hope RX4s on my disc Emonda, but rim-brake Madone buyers will only ever have one brake caliper option.

Again, it’s up to you to decide. Most of our stables have quite diminished cash value and more sentimental value. The longer you hold onto your “current” rim-brake equipment, the less you can recover from selling them.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

jasjas
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by jasjas

ryanw wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:25 am
I'm up for hearing others opinions too, I'd be over the moon if someone could suggest a pad that would possibly fix the problem...

I'm not fussed about voiding my warranty if it means I can actually stop in the wet!
I ve got some Vitt Qurano tubs and Campag red pads, also tried some v cheap wiggle lifeline pads.

Last year rode in the Pyrenees in mostly wet conditions, the 'reds were better, the lifelines were noisy but worked just fine, 1mm of toe in on both sets, i find using these carbon rims in wet or dry far supperior to alloy rims, i couldn't wish for better brakes.
Was back again this year in searing temperatures and the wheels and brake combo were superb.

In prolonged rain and little braking, occasionally, i d have to apply brakes for a spilt second to clear the rim of water, tbf i d do the same on my mtb xt disc too or an alloy rim brake.

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Beaver
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by Beaver

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:49 am
Where is your rim-brake 2019 Venge or SystemSix? Where is the rim-brake Defy? Sure, OEM rim-brake calipers will be available for a while, but bikes like the new rim-brake Madone have proprietary brakes... So what’s the difference? I’ll be able to upgrade to different calipers like I recently did with Hope RX4s on my disc Emonda, but rim-brake Madone buyers will only ever have one brake caliper option.
The Specialized CEO wanted to push disc brakes: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/special ... ped-bikes/ And he was wrong, not everyone will be on disc brakes next year, and not in the years to follow. There are three models only availiable as disc and countless others in both variants. Let's see about the next bikes that will be updated, e.g. Cannondale SuperSix Evo and Canyon Ultimate. I don't think we will see those as disc-only. So there will be another four years of rim braked road bikes - at least...
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:49 am
Again, it’s up to you to decide. Most of our stables have quite diminished cash value and more sentimental value. The longer you hold onto your “current” rim-brake equipment, the less you can recover from selling them.
...so worrying about the rim brake stable's value is a little highly dramatic.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

He's not completely "wrong" ... I'd say ~60% of the road bikes in my LBS are disc based, when it was probably 25% last year at this time. I think it will probably go as high as 75%. The non-disc bikes will end up being entry-level or slightly above. Even mid level will be dominated by disc.

Worrying about rim brake price stability is pertenant to me... I've been rotating my quiver or high end carbon quite often lately.. so I'm looking to get as much as I can to move on. Call it "dramatic" I dont know but it's a consideration.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Did any of you closely review test methodology by Tour Magazine and compared the end result? Aren't you excited for disc brakes? Wait, they are not any better than rim brakes :beerchug:
Will my next bike have disc brakes? Hell yeah, but techology is not there yet. Just be patient and wait for next generation of disc brakes, when they actually outperform rim brakes.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:55 am
Did any of you closely review test methodology by Tour Magazine and compared the end result? Aren't you excited for disc brakes? Wait, they are not any better than rim brakes :beerchug:
Will my next bike have disc brakes? Hell yeah, but techology is not there yet. Just be patient and wait for next generation of disc brakes, when they actually outperform rim brakes.
Tour Mag has no bearing on me... I dont particularly agree with their methodology at times... so it's a meh from me. Where disc and particularly HYDRO will be better "for me" is hand fatigue. Particular my left hand that has nerve damage... I'll be able to apply enough force without even using that finger... I will be happy.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

spdntrxi wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:35 am
mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:55 am
Did any of you closely review test methodology by Tour Magazine and compared the end result? Aren't you excited for disc brakes? Wait, they are not any better than rim brakes :beerchug:
Will my next bike have disc brakes? Hell yeah, but techology is not there yet. Just be patient and wait for next generation of disc brakes, when they actually outperform rim brakes.
Tour Mag has no bearing on me... I dont particularly agree with their methodology at times... so it's a meh from me. Where disc and particularly HYDRO will be better "for me" is hand fatigue. Particular my left hand that has nerve damage... I'll be able to apply enough force without even using that finger... I will be happy.
I'm not sure what rim brakes you have been using but Dura Ace can leverage with 1 finger. When I had Ultegra, it felt like a death grip.
Campagnolo provide better modulaton but require more effort than Dura Ace. In this case, it's 2 fingers :)
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

You don’t choose disc brakes for one reason, but for the sum of all the reasons. 1-finger operation, modulation, consistency of feel across wheelsets, all-weather performance, it doesn’t abrade your fancy wheels, etc.

How is the technology “not there yet?” Can you please explain that in detail? Is it the weight?

Real braking power relies on tire grip, but that’s not what makes disc brakes better. Disc brakes have had two decades of refinement on the MTB side. The benefits are there (along with some downsides like weight and the requisite purchase of new equipment.)

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:05 am
You don’t choose disc brakes for one reason, but for the sum of all the reasons. 1-finger operation, modulation, consistency of feel across wheelsets, all-weather performance, it doesn’t abrade your fancy wheels, etc.

How is the technology “not there yet?” Can you please explain that in detail? Is it the weight?
Let me rephrase this. Technology is there but it doesn't meet the bar. In a given day, my rim brakes perform exceptionally well. It's cheaper, lighter, easy to maintain.
Brake pads do not destroy carbon brake tracks. Many riders have reported over the years that after 20K miles, the brake track looks new. I give kudos (e.g. points) to squeaky discs in foul-weather. That's 1 point but they have to improve to earn more points.
People need to stop bragging about performance in foul-weather. Yes, it's better with discs but it's not the zen 365 days. How many of you unclipped, got off they bike and start cussing your rim brakes? Damn, I need to buy disc brakes because I'm in danger when it's wet out. This is the reason we have N+1 (e.g. rain bike).
Note: I have no interest to participate in disc vs. rim brake debate. As I said earlier, disc brakes is the future and I will be happy to switch when they outperform rim brakes.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

jlok
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by jlok

I buy disc brake purely because I want better brakes than rim brake and I fully aware of the costs. Not to say i can't live with rim brake, but i want sth better for my road bike usage. I still have a TT bike with rim brake and I'm still comfortable with it knowing the limits and usage.

I really look forward to at least a db thread without debate but simply knowledge sharing, like Tubular gluing thread.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

mpulsiv wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:35 am
How many of you unclipped, got off they bike and start cussing your rim brakes? Damn, I need to buy disc brakes because I'm in danger when it's wet out.
Me, numerous times on apparently amazing in the wet Enve 4.5 NBTs... I have only not crashed on them due to luck!

Our winter series crits over here in the UK are often horrendous and my race bike needs to be able to stop in the wet, hence me 100% going with discs on the next build.

My disc brake Focus Mares CX1 is amazing in the wet, albeit sounding like a strangulated trumpet when applied.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

hannawald
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by hannawald

So it seems disc brake bikes are cheaper, you dont have to buy n+1 rain bike:)

by Weenie


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