Tour Mag. disc brake vs. rim brake test

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ryanw
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by ryanw

I'm up for hearing others opinions too, I'd be over the moon if someone could suggest a pad that would possibly fix the problem...

I'm not fussed about voiding my warranty if it means I can actually stop in the wet!
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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

I have 4 sets in enves .. use EE brakes .. sometimes a front DM.. as I put a colnago fork on my Parlee. They all brake a little differently with same pads .. etc. in order : good to average
2.2 tubs - these are wonderful wet dry
2.2 clinchers - very good
7.8 clinchers - very good
4.5 clinchers - average - can’t explain this one. Wet and dry just average.

All of them NBT.
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Beaver
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by Beaver

spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:24 pm
I have 4 sets in enves .. use EE brakes .. sometimes a front DM.. as I put a colnago fork on my Parlee. They all brake a little differently with same pads .. etc. in order : good to average
2.2 tubs - these are wonderful wet dry
2.2 clinchers - very good
7.8 clinchers - very good
4.5 clinchers - average - can’t explain this one. Wet and dry just average.

All of them NBT.
The only difference would be the width (2.2: 27/27mm | 4.5: 27mm/25.5mm | 7.8: 29/27.5mm), do you adjust the brakes after wheel changes?

Imaking20
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by Imaking20

Oh, good call. EE can definitely be finicky about width. I needed to change pad spacers going between Bora 25 (24mm) and Reynolds 46 (26mm) for them both to work their best.

Also, the best braker in that list is tubular. Just sayin'

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

Beaver wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:03 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:24 pm
I have 4 sets in enves .. use EE brakes .. sometimes a front DM.. as I put a colnago fork on my Parlee. They all brake a little differently with same pads .. etc. in order : good to average
2.2 tubs - these are wonderful wet dry
2.2 clinchers - very good
7.8 clinchers - very good
4.5 clinchers - average - can’t explain this one. Wet and dry just average.

All of them NBT.
The only difference would be the width (2.2: 27/27mm | 4.5: 27mm/25.5mm | 7.8: 29/27.5mm), do you adjust the brakes after wheel changes?
yes.... even running the 4.5 with next to no gap..when it comes right down to it I just have to pull harder and even then the slowing is well ....slower.
My finger strength is dimenishing no doubt (one reason I'm going to disc) but to me I have one outlier set of hoops.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

The caliper design probably has non-linear leverage, so it doesn't matter if the pads are at a normalized distance. The braking on the narrower rim will be weaker as a result.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by LeDuke

Miller wrote:The trouble with the word 'gravel' is that it doesn't just describe one type of thing in the way 'tarmac' more or less does. Gravel can mean the thousands of miles of unpaved roads in the US which to me, from photos, look flat and well graded other than not being sealed. Those roads don't look too demanding on tyres (I could be wrong).

Gravel in the UK can mean anything from a farm track with ruts where vehicle wheels go, to muddy, rocky and overgrown bridleways that really would be better ridden on a hardtail MTB if it weren't for the easier stretches in between where a drop bar bike scores. In this environment you're looking for a wide, grippy tyre that will deal with mud while retaining decent ride characteristics for tarmac. That means compromise, of course.
It’s the same in the US. I’ve ridden “gravel” that a 23mm road tire was great on. And I’ve ridden “gravel” that required 100mm of travel, 29x2.35” tires and a good amount of skill to make it down.

Then there’s the fine, fast gravel with braking bumps thrown in. I usually make sure I’m behind someone if I suspect that might be coming up.


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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:58 am
The caliper design probably has non-linear leverage, so it doesn't matter if the pads are at a normalized distance. The braking on the narrower rim will be weaker as a result.
quite possible.. it would explain it... I never could.
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by Beaver

That's why we have the hive mind of the internet. ;)

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by tarmackev

I wasn’t bothered by discs, ride my CX bike in the road and preferred it, decided to purchase a TCR Pro disc.
It doesn’t feel quite as snappy as the lighter TCR.
I do like that I can use carbon wheels with no risk of trashing rims.
I’ve just built up an old Cervelo Soloist with Force rim brakes and there’s a noticeable lack of feel compared to the discs.
The discs really come in to their own when you’re right on the limit with breaking, more feel, power and confidence.
If you have a hairy moment in the wet or on a descent you do feel like you have more control rather than being at the mercy of the bike.
I prefer them but just like Di2 it’s not essential.


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by zappafile123

So in a casual chat with my local shimano rep:

Me: "so what do you think of this whole industry push to disc brakes?"
Rep: "It's absolute bullshit"
Me: ""I know right!?"

Save your money, buy better wheels, dont bother with disc (unless you live in an area with lots and lots of rain and mountains).
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

lol

This Shimano rep is probably contracted through a regional "brand management" agency... It's no different than asking any other random crusty bike shop employee. Maybe ask someone who actually works for the brand in product design / R&D.

You do you. If that doesn't involve real climbing/descending, supertucking for extra speed and late braking, then whatever. It's just funny to me because the weight penalty of disc brakes doesn't really matter for flatlanders.

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zappafile123
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by zappafile123

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:29 am
lol

You do you.
Touché, he is just a rep and not in R&D. That being said, I feel it is my duty as someone who is paid to impart their expertise to level with people that discs are something that shouldn't be purchased without fair consideration of the pro's and cons of said purchase. The cons outweigh the pros at this stage, and I encourage price sensitive customers to spend their money elsewhere.

The argument that one should purchase discs becuase thats the way the market is going is moot.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

It's not about price sensitivity to me and I think someone buying their first bike absolutely should go with disc brakes. It's the reality of the marketplace and the new customer with the disc-brake bike is less likely to be caught with his pants down come time to upgrade components. While there is still a possibility that flat-mount, 12x100/12x142, etc. will be replaced...rim-brake bikes also saw changes with direct-mount or vertical integration in aero bikes with various crappy v-brake designs. And the writing is on the wall...rim-brake versions of new aero frames are the exception now rather than the rule.

If you've got a stable of rim-brake bikes and wheelsets, then sure, maybe delay the transition as long as you think is feasible, but at some point it's just not going to make sense and I feel most people should actually work on paring down / selling their superfluous rim-brake equipment while it still has resale value.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:40 am
It's not about price sensitivity to me. I think someone buying their first bike absolutely should go with disc brakes because of market trends. It's the reality of the marketplace and the new customer with the disc-brake bike is less likely to be caught with his pants down come time to upgrade components. While there is still a possibility that flat-mount, 12x100/12x142, etc. will be replaced...rim-brake bikes also saw changes with direct-mount or vertical integration in aero bikes with various crappy v-brake designs. And with writing is on the wall...rim-brake versions of new aero frames are the exception now rather than the rule.

If you've got a stable of rim-brake bikes and wheelsets, then sure, maybe delay the transition as long as you think is feasible, but at some point it's just not going to make sense and I feel most people should actually work on paring down / selling their superfluous rim-brake equipment while it still has resale value.
exactly... I'm biting this bitter pill right now. By the end of the year I should have 2 disc bikes.... only the TT/Tri bike I am holding off on, but it will only have the one wheelset and that's it. However if I can find a good deal that one is going too.
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