Tour Mag. disc brake vs. rim brake test
Moderator: robbosmans
If you're on alloy currently, there's really very little reason to go to disc. It's everyone else on carbon that has a lot more to benefit. Carbon braking ranges from acceptable to atrocious, and even today it's a bit of a crap shoot what you end up with. The primary benefit of disc outside of wet weather riding is that you get to purchase any carbon rim and ride it anywhere and all the time. It decouples the braking from the wheel, giving you a consistent braking experience regardless of wheel manufacturer and no chance of delaminating a wheel.
If I could get a carbon tubular wheelset that brake identically to alloy (feel, power and modulation) I'd have zero reason to give disc the time day. The reality is that none of my carbon wheelsets feel as nice to brake with as a good alloy wheelset. Campy H11 is even better yet. It's an opulent braking experience (probably partly due to resin pads which brake extremely smoothly).
That's not to say it's not without its niggles. I'll update my build thread a little later with those when I get back from my trip.
If I could get a carbon tubular wheelset that brake identically to alloy (feel, power and modulation) I'd have zero reason to give disc the time day. The reality is that none of my carbon wheelsets feel as nice to brake with as a good alloy wheelset. Campy H11 is even better yet. It's an opulent braking experience (probably partly due to resin pads which brake extremely smoothly).
That's not to say it's not without its niggles. I'll update my build thread a little later with those when I get back from my trip.
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I know disc brakes from MTB - on loose ground the better modulation makes sense, but on the road? The limiting factor is the tire:Stitchking wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:34 pmHow many of the people railing against disc brakes have actually ridden them on the road for more than a carpark test?
I bet when shimano bought out sti shifters there were a bunch of people who were ranting about how downtube shifters were just fine and those hoods look ugly etc etc
Would anyone go back now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdVMYo1H38
With STI you don't have to reach between your legs and your hands can stay on the bar. This is a benefit any rider will experience in any condition. Disc brakes in the dry won't help much.
I do sports six times the week - if it's dry I go cycling, if it's damp or wet I go running. For mountains I have to ride a while and that's only possible on weekends - and I won't, if there will be rain. And even if it only could rain, there are far less people on road bikes on the streets (or at 35°C we had the last weeks): The populace won't ride mountains in the rain on a regular basis...TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 pmYou asked for benefits, I gave them. Was your intention just to shoot down any benefit mentioned? Tell me, do you literally never ride mountains or in damp conditions?
...but have these disadvantages every day. I you prefer the lever feel and better modulation, take disc, but it's just not better for everyone.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 pmIf weight doesn’t matter on flat ground, aren’t the benefits of disc more attractive? The reasons not to go disc would be tradeoffs like upgrade costs, existing equipment, not knowing how to perform basic maintenance on them (bleeding/truing new rotors/etc)
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So, the answer is no then?Beaver wrote:I know disc brakes from MTB - on loose ground the better modulation makes sense, but on the road? The limiting factor is the tire:
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I also did the mentioned car park ride (and a bit more) with a disc road bike, which would be a no for you obviously.Stitchking wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:07 amSo, the answer is no then?Beaver wrote:I know disc brakes from MTB - on loose ground the better modulation makes sense, but on the road? The limiting factor is the tire:
A steel wire can't feel as good as a hydraulic system, but the bottom line for me is, that I never had a problem with modulation on the road and the stopping distance in the dry is not really shorter.
Me? Utterly unimpressed. For the money I'd expect to be able to tell the difference between them and the DA/Ultegras on my own bikes.Stitchking wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:34 pmHow many of the people railing against disc brakes have actually ridden them on the road for more than a carpark test?
I'll have them on my next winter bike. I've had frozen rims a few times too many.
Nope. Not in my experience. Most riders were worried about adjustment during a ride to allow for knocked rear mechs/cable slip etc.Stitchking wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:34 pmI bet when shimano bought out sti shifters there were a bunch of people who were ranting about how downtube shifters were just fine and those hoods look ugly etc etc
With indexed DT shifters you at least had a friction option. It was actually an issue for some. Race over type issue.
TBH it's more like the 1x/2x discussion than anything else. One group can set up front mechs properly, another group can't (or insist on SRAM).
One group like the availability of closely spaced gears, the other doesn't care. One group have mechanical sympathy, the other just wants to smash through the gears.
And so on.
Both groups are right, for a given value of right.
But the other group is obviously wrong and full of idiots because new/existing tech is always better for every use case and user. Always. No arguments.
One group like the availability of closely spaced gears, the other doesn't care. One group have mechanical sympathy, the other just wants to smash through the gears.
And so on.
Both groups are right, for a given value of right.
But the other group is obviously wrong and full of idiots because new/existing tech is always better for every use case and user. Always. No arguments.
Can we get an upvote button?mattr wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:52 pmTBH it's more like the 1x/2x discussion than anything else. One group can set up front mechs properly, another group can't (or insist on SRAM).
One group like the availability of closely spaced gears, the other doesn't care. One group have mechanical sympathy, the other just wants to smash through the gears.
And so on.
Both groups are right, for a given value of right.
But the other group is obviously wrong and full of idiots because new/existing tech is always better for every use case and user. Always. No arguments.
People keep going on about disc brakes strictly in terms of the braking experience but for me there are other real benefits. The main one is the freedom the frame designer has to give good clearance. That allows wider tyres with concomitant benefits of better comfort from lower pressure, ability to cope with crap roads, while still maintaining excellent speed.
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While tires have their uses I have never been on road ride where I felt I needed more then 26mm tires. I've even done rides that had gravel sections back when I was running 23s, and while not ideal I was able to get through it. If was doing a ride where I needed to use wider than 28s I would likely be better off on a completely different bike than my road bike.
Discs have their situational uses with certain drawbacks but for most people and the riding they do they really aren't the necessity or upgrade the industry would have you believe.
Discs have their situational uses with certain drawbacks but for most people and the riding they do they really aren't the necessity or upgrade the industry would have you believe.
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+1
I couldn't use super wide rims like LB56mm 23mm inside 30 mm outside with a 25mm nominative width on mosts regulars road bikes with regular caliper ( not long reach) be it direct mount or not ...
I may be wrong but I don't think you can improve significantly rim brakes more than they are ( Dura ace 9100, EE brakes , nevered tried Campa brakes and Sram well they suck , don't know about their last direct mount rim brakes tough ) . For alloys rims , pads could be better ? Not sure
For Carbon rims , Campagnolo Bora , Zipp are good in dry weather and okayish when wet ...
I hope rims brakes top notche bikes continue to be avalaible for those won't want disc brakes ( at least for 10 15 years )
Or you'll go custom
I couldn't use super wide rims like LB56mm 23mm inside 30 mm outside with a 25mm nominative width on mosts regulars road bikes with regular caliper ( not long reach) be it direct mount or not ...
I may be wrong but I don't think you can improve significantly rim brakes more than they are ( Dura ace 9100, EE brakes , nevered tried Campa brakes and Sram well they suck , don't know about their last direct mount rim brakes tough ) . For alloys rims , pads could be better ? Not sure
For Carbon rims , Campagnolo Bora , Zipp are good in dry weather and okayish when wet ...
I hope rims brakes top notche bikes continue to be avalaible for those won't want disc brakes ( at least for 10 15 years )
Or you'll go custom
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Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
This is among the worst thing I've seen, and I will never be able to unsee it. Absolutely brutal.Beaver wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:55 am
I know disc brakes from MTB - on loose ground the better modulation makes sense, but on the road? The limiting factor is the tire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdVMYo1H38