New Emonda ALR? Discs?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
moonoi
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Earth

by moonoi

flying wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:51 am
Christono wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:23 am
is this at probike?
Yes at Probike
https://www.facebook.com/ProbikeTrek/vi ... PlwaLIo1fg

Price below the video screen
Except if you contact them (Probike is opposite my office), they'll tell you that price is a typo and it's actualy 27000THB, and they claim the 21.5k price is for the older Emonda ALR. Yet they haven't updated any of their posts to reflect this...

by Weenie


flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

moonoi wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:56 am

Except if you contact them (Probike is opposite my office), they'll tell you that price is a typo and it's actualy 27000THB, and they claim the 21.5k price is for the older Emonda ALR. Yet they haven't updated any of their posts to reflect this...
Well that is not good
Thanks for the heads up :thumbup:

TIT right :wink:

robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I took an ALR6 (black) rim brake for a test ride today. I wanted to love it, I really did... but... didn't. The welds at head tube were nice, but pretty ordinary everywhere else. And the finish also not inspiring.

flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:48 pm
I took an ALR6 (black) rim brake for a test ride today. I wanted to love it, I really did... but... didn't. The welds at head tube were nice, but pretty ordinary everywhere else. And the finish also not inspiring.
That is interesting too.
I have not seen one in person & it is just on the "check out" list for next frame as I said along with the Ridley Helium SLA & a few others.

To be honest I can find no fault in the Fuji Roubaix frame I have been using & may grab another.

It does everything very well is lively. Quality is excellent as is price
The only thing is it looks like Fuji 2019 models are out now on Fuji site & they are not selling the Roubaix Elite Frame alone
in 2019 as they have been doing so would need to source a 2018 http://archive.fujibikes.com/2018/Fuji/ ... ite-frame2

This was told to me by Fuji today in an email

robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

flying wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:30 pm
robertbb wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:48 pm
I took an ALR6 (black) rim brake for a test ride today. I wanted to love it, I really did... but... didn't. The welds at head tube were nice, but pretty ordinary everywhere else. And the finish also not inspiring.
That is interesting too.
I have not seen one in person & it is just on the "check out" list for next frame as I said along with the Ridley Helium SLA & a few others.

To be honest I can find no fault in the Fuji Roubaix frame I have been using & may grab another.

It does everything very well is lively. Quality is excellent as is price
The only thing is it looks like Fuji 2019 models are out now on Fuji site & they are not selling the Roubaix Elite Frame alone
in 2019 as they have been doing so would need to source a 2018 http://archive.fujibikes.com/2018/Fuji/ ... ite-frame2

This was told to me by Fuji today in an email
What does the Fuji actually weigh? Frame weight and fork weight?

My Canyon AL SLX in size S weighs 1273g (size S) with a 317g fork.

flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:31 am
What does the Fuji actually weigh? Frame weight and fork weight?

My Canyon AL SLX in size S weighs 1273g (size S) with a 317g fork.
I have not weighed just the frame but mine is painted So I would guess 1200-1250gr
They claim their average size...(54-56) is 1090 grams on the anodized models...
Fork is the FC440 fork so depending on how much steer tube is left
they claim 390gr average weight

If I buy another Fuji frame in January when I get back from 3 months riding in Asia I will definitely
scale all parts as I build it. This time I got a crazy low price on a Roubaix 1.1 & then changed out wheels crank,BB,cassette etc
So never had it completely stripped

All in all seems fine IMHO
My Carbon tube & lug Look 585 was 1023gr for the Medium frame & 274gr for the cut HSC5 Fork
I had my years of chasing grams & that Look was 6300gr/13.8 lbs with Hyperons

But funny now a good dozen years later I ride a 17lb Fuji & my times are not much different on classic rides
(rides I have done hundreds of times over the years :D )

PS: They also had a complete Fuji Elite with SRAM Force that they sold for around $1700 but would go on sale -30% at times
it had a claimed weight of 15.85lbs
http://archive.fujibikes.com/2017/Fuji/roubaix-elite
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/b ... 18-31-8528

robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

flying wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:04 am
robertbb wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:31 am
What does the Fuji actually weigh? Frame weight and fork weight?

My Canyon AL SLX in size S weighs 1273g (size S) with a 317g fork.
I have not weighed just the frame but mine is painted So I would guess 1200-1250gr
They claim their average size...(54-56) is 1090 grams on the anodized models...
Fork is the FC440 fork so depending on how much steer tube is left
they claim 390gr average weight

If I buy another Fuji frame in January when I get back from 3 months riding in Asia I will definitely
scale all parts as I build it. This time I got a crazy low price on a Roubaix 1.1 & then changed out wheels crank,BB,cassette etc
So never had it completely stripped

All in all seems fine IMHO
My Carbon tube & lug Look 585 was 1023gr for the Medium frame & 274gr for the cut HSC5 Fork
I had my years of chasing grams & that Look was 6300gr/13.8 lbs with Hyperons

But funny now a good dozen years later I ride a 17lb Fuji & my times are not much different on classic rides
(rides I have done hundreds of times over the years :D )

PS: They also had a complete Fuji Elite with SRAM Force that they sold for around $1700 but would go on sale -30% at times
it had a claimed weight of 15.85lbs
http://archive.fujibikes.com/2017/Fuji/roubaix-elite
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/b ... 18-31-8528
Thanks for the response... :)

Accounting for the heavyish fork, the difference between Roubaix and Ultimate AL is around 100g. Probably just not worth it for me to swap purely on weight. I'll have a closer look at the geometry. I think the welds and cable routing are a bit nicer on the Roubaix. How would you say it rides?

flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:09 am

Thanks for the response... :)

Accounting for the heavyish fork, the difference between Roubaix and Ultimate AL is around 100g. Probably just not worth it for me to swap purely on weight. I'll have a closer look at the geometry. I think the welds and cable routing are a bit nicer on the Roubaix. How would you say it rides?

For myself I will say it rides very nicely.
I look at it & tend to think the curved top tube with its flat top may have a hand in that.
Also has nice asymmetrical chainstays

Overall I am really happy with it & have been thru many bikes & materials in my years of riding.
Actually the only reason I am looking for the next build is I plan to leave this bike in SE Asia on our upcoming trip so I dont need
to take a bike with me next year from Hawaii to Asia (too much hassle) :D

There was only one thing that bothered me with this frame & that was initially the random squeak at times that was of course the pressfit BB
It is PF86 & I eventually fixed it by going with the Wheels thread together BB unit. I see the last two years Roubaix model is now PF30
Wish the would just go threaded BSA like Ridley Helium SLA ( Which is what drew me to look at the Ridley)

What did you not like about your Ultimate AL?

jeepntrek
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:23 pm

by jeepntrek

500 miles this week and loved every one of ‘em :thumbup:
Attachments
54EE92E4-C034-406A-9119-BF77168170EA.jpeg

robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

flying wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 pm
robertbb wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:09 am

Thanks for the response... :)

Accounting for the heavyish fork, the difference between Roubaix and Ultimate AL is around 100g. Probably just not worth it for me to swap purely on weight. I'll have a closer look at the geometry. I think the welds and cable routing are a bit nicer on the Roubaix. How would you say it rides?

For myself I will say it rides very nicely.
I look at it & tend to think the curved top tube with its flat top may have a hand in that.
Also has nice asymmetrical chainstays

Overall I am really happy with it & have been thru many bikes & materials in my years of riding.
Actually the only reason I am looking for the next build is I plan to leave this bike in SE Asia on our upcoming trip so I dont need
to take a bike with me next year from Hawaii to Asia (too much hassle) :D

There was only one thing that bothered me with this frame & that was initially the random squeak at times that was of course the pressfit BB
It is PF86 & I eventually fixed it by going with the Wheels thread together BB unit. I see the last two years Roubaix model is now PF30
Wish the would just go threaded BSA like Ridley Helium SLA ( Which is what drew me to look at the Ridley)

What did you not like about your Ultimate AL?
The things I don't ike about the Ultimate AL are:

1) The welds: absolute amateur hour. Others have noticed the same on their alloy Canyon frames. I'm lucky that mine appears not as bad as some others, but its still pretty dog.
2) The brake cable routing through the top tube is very poorly thought out. It enters on the non drive side and exits on the same side. The cable rubs on the inside of the top tube which unfortunately messes with rear brake feel. Also makes an annoying grinding noise.
3) The weight - 1273 is just too heavy compared to some modern AL frames and unfortunatey cancels out the gains of what is a fantastic fork. I'm investigating repurposing that fork on a Ti frame...
4) The BB86 shell. At least with PF30 as on the Fuji Roubaix there is a really nice praxis option for Campy UT (which I run).

Otherwise the bike rides extremely well. It's very stiff and responsive and the geometry is great, but actually very comfortable too (which says a lot, I still run 23mm tyres on 17c rims). I've used it to travel O/S (won't travel with a carbon bike) and compete in a few gran fondoes... some on pretty average roads compared to what we have here. 130k rides no problem at all. And I use alloy bars!

flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:25 am
The things I don't ike about the Ultimate AL are:

1) The welds: absolute amateur hour. Others have noticed the same on their alloy Canyon frames. I'm lucky that mine appears not as bad as some others, but its still pretty dog.
2) The brake cable routing through the top tube is very poorly thought out. It enters on the non drive side and exits on the same side. The cable rubs on the inside of the top tube which unfortunately messes with rear brake feel. Also makes an annoying grinding noise.
3) The weight - 1273 is just too heavy compared to some modern AL frames and unfortunatey cancels out the gains of what is a fantastic fork. I'm investigating repurposing that fork on a Ti frame...
4) The BB86 shell. At least with PF30 as on the Fuji Roubaix there is a really nice praxis option for Campy UT (which I run).

Otherwise the bike rides extremely well. It's very stiff and responsive and the geometry is great, but actually very comfortable too (which says a lot, I still run 23mm tyres on 17c rims). I've used it to travel O/S (won't travel with a carbon bike) and compete in a few gran fondoes... some on pretty average roads compared to what we have here. 130k rides no problem at all. And I use alloy bars!
Those are good reasons & I have also said what horrible welds that Canyon has...(surprisingly because I think they are a good brand otherwise)
Like you I have noticed modern aluminum frames leave nothing to want for comfort wise & I also use alloy bars.
Also like you I do not want to consider lightweight carbon to travel with...why worry?
A padded with plumbing/piping insulation alum frame in bag or box travels super well :wink:

robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Would you happen to know what dimension the seatpost is on the Ridley Helium SLA?

Can't find any close up pics of the cable routing in the HT and out around the BB. I prefer entry point in the HT as on the Ridley, as opposed to on the downtube as on the Fuji (though not entirely a deal breaker.

flying
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

robertbb wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:02 pm
Would you happen to know what dimension the seatpost is on the Ridley Helium SLA?

Can't find any close up pics of the cable routing in the HT and out around the BB. I prefer entry point in the HT as on the Ridley, as opposed to on the downtube as on the Fuji (though not entirely a deal breaker.
The Helium SLA frame is developed to use a 27,2 mm seat post.

That is from pdf file page 6 on Ridley Helium SLA :thumbup:

https://ridleybikes-ridley2.netdna-ssl. ... t_2017.pdf

You can download off link (save as )

MisterNoChain
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:29 pm
Location: Belgium

by MisterNoChain

Nice!! What does it weigh?

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Thanks... the Helium frame looks like a winner.

According to that pdf, it's 1140 for a size S. The fork is 360. They allow themselves 10% margin of error.

Geometry comparison below. I don't know how they can come to different stack numbers given the other geometry info is almost identical. Can't figure this out???

Helium (S) Roubaix (M)
ETT 54.5 54.5
Stack 573 543
Reach 384 384

ST Length 510 500
HT Length 142 140

HT Angle 73 73
ST Angle 73.5 73.5

BB Drop 66 68

Wheelbase 977 978
Chainstay 405 405

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