Etap FD issues?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I've contemplated Etap upgrade on my bike, so i started to google about Etap.
Among the first thing i noticed was the complaints about the FD and chain falling off both at the inside and outside.

So for the guys using Etap, have you had any issues and how did you solve it?

Is it possible Sram have done rolling updates on Etap?
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Sock3t
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by Sock3t

Do a little searching - there is a GIANT thread floating around talking about this. IIRC the chainstay length has some effect on this.

by Weenie


sungod
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by sungod

fitted etap about 2.5 years ago, no chain drop

as above, some people do have problems, i'd say it's a mix of things...

poor set-up
flexy fd mount
geometry, as above maybe short chainstays
also have a sneaking feeling it's more common with compact chainsets
trying to adjust for no cage rub when extreme cross chaining - i.e. in big-big that'll put the lower limit too far inboard, especially if chainstay length is shorter

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wheelbuilder
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by wheelbuilder

It can be a bit fussy and methodical set-up is critical. I had a brief period where it went out of adjustment mysteriously at the 1 year mark, but attributed that to loosening/flexing of mount bolt. Chainstay length/Q-factor/ and shape of seat tube all have an effect on set up in my opinion. I think using the provided wedges although a pain in the ass increases the performance drastically. I did the first year without the wedge and after installing the correct one shifting was crisper and more powerful.

Jugi
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by Jugi

I've had eTap on my Scott Plasma 2 TT bike for about 1,5 years. The bike's chainline is somewhat weird (just moved the same eTap RD to my Spez Tarmac SL3 and had to adjust it for one full shift's width outwards). I am using Rotor Q-rings as well.

I quess I have ridden over 1000km with eTap and during that time, I can remember three occasions of chain dropping outside the bigger chainring. Like mentioned, yesterday I moved the derailleurs to my road bike and rode it today for 80km. Had perfect shifting after carefully positioning the FD and making very fine adjustments on the limit screws.

I think all the internet discussion stems from the fact that eTap's setup is, in essence, just as easy as advertised. However tuning the front derailleur may need very fine adjustments. For someone experienced in derailleur setup, eTap may work faultlessly from the first shift. For someone who is new at it and doesn't completely understand how the adjustments affect the derailleur, the setup may turn out to be a long road of trial and error.

By the way, the ride today felt like a spiritual awakening. Of course I knew what eTap offered based on my experience with it on the TT rig, but making the switch from 2x10 Red to eTap on the road bike was quite exhilarating. I was grinning like a village idiot for most of the time.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Hey Jugi

what chainring combo do you have and what RD, wifli or standard?

Thanks guys, i appreciate all inputs!
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Jugi
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by Jugi

I have 53/38 Q-rings on my TT bike and 52/36 Q-rings on the road bike. RD is the standard version and currently both bikes have the same 11-26 Red cassette and Red chain.

While moving the derailleurs from bike to bike, I moved the chain as well. I was a prepared to cut the chain but luckily it only seemed to be two links (one wide + one narrow) longer on the TT bike than the previous road bike’s chain. Went with that and seemed to work. Only thing to mention in the back was that I had to adjust the low limit carefully, to not have the RD cage’s inner plate rub on the spokes while in at the cassette’s innermost sprocket. I quess that issue might not have arisen at all with a chain cut exactly to the right length.

sungod
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by sungod

when i first put etap on, i had fairly old red 10 speed chainrings, once worn out replaced with praxisworks, then when these wore out decided to try sram red 22 yaw rings

haven't noticed any difference in shifting, but set-up with the yaw rings seemed a bit easier

in all cases i needed to mount the fd a bit higher than sram's instructions to avoid noise - which i think is due to the lump inside the front of the cage

edit: this isn't unique to etap, some people have had similar issues with di2 in the past (if you search for "di2 chain drop" you'll find similar stories), which raises the question of whether there're common factors/solutions

this arcticle on velonews about di2 chain drop suggests short chainstays, cross chaining as possibilities, and the comment about not seeing it on mechanical would be consistent with flexy fd mounts being a problem, there's an additional suggestion that worn chainrings might also be a factor...
https://www.velonews.com/2016/08/bikes- ... ins_419285

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

sungod, i start off by mentioning Di2 fitment.
I use Easton EC90SL, with Kent Eriksen custom CNC spider (110 bcd)
This allows standard 110 bcd chainrings aswell as a more outboard chainline to fit 142*12 rear spacing.
The chainline is approx 46.5mm. This works really superb with my gravel bike using 44/34 Wickwerks CX combo.
No problem using all gears on both chainrings (using Sram PG-1170, 11-36)

NEED TO KNOW!
You'd need Sugino MT OX adapter to lower 8050 RD to correct height over super compact chainrings!

Now to Etap FD. As is, i read you'd need Srams Red crank, which could be due to chainline (Red crank 45mm uisng 50/34 and 52/36)
FSA K-force is 44.5 - 45mm aswell as standard Easton ECp0SL which is used as standard crank at BH bikes.
Anyway, now Absolute black sell oval chainrings for FSA K-force.
I am worried Etap FD will not handle these?
Anyone tried Absolute Black Oval chainrings, ex Red version, with Etap FD?

With regards to your link.
My 6870 dropped chain inboards like crazy on my gravel bike (420mm chainstays).
I drilled a new hole in the RD, for more tension of tension spring.
It did not sort all issues. Change of crankset and wider chainline however did change alot.

I don't know about Sram Etap FD, but does it work better if you change chainring and avoid pedalling at the shift (derailleur cage has time to settle to it's position)??
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Front shifts are always smoother if you ease off the power while maintainig a decent cadence, the eTap FD is no different in that regard.

The eTap FD (and all SRAM Yaw FDs) is notoriously bad with non-round rings. On some bikes with just the right braze-on tab geometry (including round tubed bikes with clamp adapters) you can get it working acceptably, but be prepared to throw the chain over the front ring...a lot.

If you have issues with Shimano FDs and inside chain drops, I’m afraid you’re going to have a mess of a time with SRAM.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I have seen everything there is to see with oval ring set-up and SRAM Yaw FDs. I even use the angled shim. Nothing works 100%...or even 95%. I have perfect shifting with Shimano FDs on the other hand because that is very easy to do.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:23 pm
I have seen everything there is to see with oval ring set-up and SRAM Yaw FDs. I even use the angled shim. Nothing works 100%...or even 95%. I have perfect shifting with Shimano FDs on the other hand because that is very easy to do.
I had in mind using FSA K-Force Light (ABS) with the latest Absolute black oval chainrings for this crank.
When i read that it was a nightmare with oval + that Sram void all warranties if i use anything but standard Red,... i needed to rethink the FSA crank and oval chainrings.
FSA retail for big chainring is pure madness. Even though this crank + chainrings shift very fast and precise, i could not go ahead.
So i ordered Sram Red 22 BB386 crankset.
I could not fit Rotors chaincather as FD had no clearace. Also needed to reverse the guide for spacers.
2.5mm + 2 pcs 0.5 shims on driveside, 3.2mm + wavy shim for non driveside.
I run 2.5mm spacer + wavy shim on NDS, 3.2m + 1 pcs 0.5mm spacer on DS.
After mush fiddling it shift perfect, no chaindrops.
On big chainring, it rub FD cage slightly on second large cassette cog.
Large + large clear rub. (11-28 Shimano DA cassette, Red 22 chain)
All other gears run perfectly
Small chainring run perfectly.
No chaindrops and no chaincatcher.

I noticed FD is picky on height and angle.
Reading Sram PDF suggest very exact frame geometry and measurements.
Sram have 45mm chainline, probably a bit more as i reversed BB spacers.
Also guess Sram Red crank have another distance between Large and small chainring (not sure this matters for perfect shifting of FD?)
Installation Sram Etap VS Shimano Di2 = Not at all as easy as Di2.
For ease and trouble free installation and execution, Shimano Di2 is King i would say.
If i would recommend anyone between Etap of Di2, i would say Di2.

Etap RD, FD, Shifters, chain and Red BB 386 crankset (50/36).
Shimano DA 11-28 cassette.
EE brakes.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO D frame.
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Jugi
Posts: 166
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by Jugi

You guys make me feel so lucky. Right now I have one and a half sets of eTap - blips and BlipBox on my TT bike, levers on my road bike and a pair of derailleurs. Rest of the setups are:

TT bike Scott Plasma 2 (54):
Quarq Red 130BCD GXP crank
Rotor Q-rings 53/38
SRAM Red 22 chain
SRAM Red XG-1190 11-25 cassette (on a Zipp 900 disc wheel)

Road bike Specialized Tarmac SL3 (56):
Quarq Red 110BCD GXP crank
Rotor Q-Rings 52/38 (slightly modified to fit the 110BCD Quarq)
SRAM Red 22 chain
SRAM Red XG-1190 11-26 cassette (on a Easton EC90 wheel with R4 SL hub)

What I expect from my groupset:
- No chain drops during normal shifting
- Possible to shift chain simultaneusly at front and back fluidly without risk of dropping the chain
- Can have a clear rasping sound in big-big and small-small combinations to remind me I’m doing something stupid
- Can have a minor rasping sound in big-small and small-big combinations to inform me I’m running out of gears

I started this 1,5 groupset endeavour a week ago when upgrading my road bike from 2x10 Red to eTap. Rode eTap on my road bike for 240 km during this week and despite setting up carefully, I had one chain drop inside the smaller chainring. Adjusted FD’s lower limit and didn’t experience that again. Then moved the derailleurs back to my TT bike and rode it for 80 km with flawless shifting.

Today I moved the derailleurs to my road bike and the adjustments are getting more straight forward as I know what needs to be done. For fun, I clocked myself for the setup. Derailleur move, pairing and setup between bikes (without a test ride) - 15 min and 29 secs.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I have no rasping sound except from 50-28.
I can see, the second largest cog is not optimal on workstand.
All else, run with no clearance issue. Really short chainstays on frame!
In all this, switching spacer size, i would be way better off using 3.2mm spacer on NDS and 2.5mm on DS.
That is also spec. But my setup got better when doing vice versa.
But no way i fiddle with that again. Even though i would like it as spec.
It should help with Big-big (but probably not small-small and small big)
Had i worked on Di2, no problem. It's almost difficult to make that work bad.

But it's really bad when you hear of guys who ordered bikes and chain jump inboard and outboard.
Perhaps in due time, we'll get the same.
It seems when reading around, the setup could have been working great and later on it just start to f**ck up!

EDIT:

I changed spacer position, as per spec on my BB386 crank, backed high limit screw on FD one full circle and now i can shift almost all gears with good clearance.
The one excerpt is 50-28 which will rasp. All other combos work without any issues.
Etap FD in a sense feels more like a mechanical FD as it is very picky!

Also noted Etap Wifli RD works best when it's less tension on B-screw. Particularly when in big chainring!
It shifts down on the cassette with better, ease.
My guess is that the standard Etap RD, non Wifli, is easier to get more precise.
Using Wifli and larger cassette (30-32), i don't expect you can use those low gears on big chainring.
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by Weenie


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