anybody know about Centaur 12-32 11-speed cassette with short cage

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Catagory6
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

rear derailleur and 34/50 chainrings?
i know its outside of campagnolo's official specifications. but i think they're conservative with those numbers

by Weenie


WheelNut
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by WheelNut

According to the Campag website there is only one cage length for the Centaur 11 groupset, which is to say that it will work with a 32t cog.

Catagory6
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by Catagory6

WheelNut wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:25 am
According to the Campag website there is only one cage length for the Centaur 11 groupset, which is to say that it will work with a 32t cog.
yeah, i'm using a short cage, and was wondering if anybody had real-world experience using the 12-32
my current cassette is a 12-27, and i think going 12-29 wont be enough of an improvement for the cost.

thanks

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MayhemSWE
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by MayhemSWE

Not sure I really understand the question. Considering all previous versions of Centaur were 10-speed or less, and the latest 11-speed version only comes in a single approximate medium length cage, the only way for you to have a short cage derailleur would be some kind of frankensetup using an older 10-speed derailleur on 11-speed shifters. If your setup consists of only 11-speed Centaur parts if anything it should work better than it currently does with a 32T cassette judging by this print on the rear of the cage:

Image

joeyb1000
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by joeyb1000

I understand the question: Can you use an 11-32 casette with a short cage derailleur?

Yes. I tested it out. It does work (i.e. 34/32).

Campy's specs are done so that you would be able to use the second cog with the large chainring (50/28). If you are going to stay with the short cage, I would avoid this combination.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

No the cable pull of a Centaur 11 speed derailleur is different to everything else in the range. The Rd geometry dictates this. You have to use the Centaur Rd.

Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

I am using it too with a Chorus short rear der. and short 405 stay. Big big is not fabulous but with care it works when i stumble in it by accident. From what I read it is not necesarily the cage length that influences this, but also the hanger. So you can't know for sure until you try it.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

with centaur 11 speed though another campagnolo derailleur there will be a cable pull mismatch though. so why advocate a bodge.

Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Cable pull might be different in centaur but the cassette seems to have the same sprocket and spacer thickness as Chrous so it works with the more expensive groupsets. OP wasn't super clear but I bet this what he wants, 32 sprocket instead of 29 with Chorus or higher. I bought mine because Potenza was out of stock. Looks a bit rough but shifts about as nice as my SR cassette, have nothing to complain and interchange them accordinng to terrain with no issues (12-25 SR and 11-32 Centaur). A boat anchor btw, 335g or so.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

the cassette spacing is the same for all Campagnolo 11 speed cassettes but a short cage mech is not going to give chain tension in the small ring and the first 3 or so gears with a 12-32T. it might get into the 34/32T but that does not mean it works in all gear combinations.

I think i misread the OP wanting to fit a short cage mech to the a centaur groupset. you need a medium cage RD to get it to all work right.

JoO
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

I even tried a SRAM 11-36 with 48/36 chainrings on my canyon ultimate CF with an 2014 chorus short rear derailleur!
Worked fine in the bike stand.

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Centaur 11 dearilleur systems are Centaur 11 derailleur systems. So rear mech and lever need to be used in combination.

As other posters have pointed out, there is only one cage length in Centaur 11, it's 72.5 mm between centres on the jockey cage.

If you want to run the unranged chain normally supplied with Potenza and Centaur, or the Potenza or Centaur 11-32 cassettes with the higher groups, or any other combination of 11s parts outside of the derailleur - shifter area of the groups, that's fine - but to do so in a way that works correctly with 11-32, you will need a HO Medium cage RD from the higher ranges and you need to pay attention (considering parts away from the rear shift) to the front shift in relation to the crankset in use.

As a point of interest, the HO medium cage RD is also a better match if you want to run 11-29 ... Potenza gear with Potenza levers, any higher range HO RD with any higher-range shifters, etc.

Campagnolo don't particularly recommend 11-27, 11-25 or 11-23 cassettes with Centaur 11 RDs - although they work "OK" they don't work "to spec" because the top jockey wheel path is at the wrong tracking angle for shallower-gradient cassettes and there is insufficient adjustment of the tracking angle available in the design of the RD to make it so.

If you try and bodge a system together with a Centaur RD 11 and any of the higher range shift levers, you will have two problems, one of which I have answered extensively about in other threads - the problem of rear derailleur return spring strength, PLUS you will have a mis-match in any case in pull ratios between the Centaur 11 and every other RD in the Campag 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12s range, as BmOp700f has pointed out.

If anyone thinks that produces acceptable shifting, your definition of acceptable shifting and mine are so far apart that it's not even worth discussing.

If you try and cut a corner by fitting the new medium cage to a non-HO 2015 or later RD, the problems are two-fold. The HO RDs have a beefed-up and more rigid top pivot assembly than their non-HO predecessors so they run, especially cross-chained, quieter and more accurately. The top pivot hosing is better reinforced in the HO RDs to cope with the increased leverage that the chain imposes, especlally when fully big-to-big cross-chained, than the earlier iterations, so reducing any tendency towards failure.

Whether something will or won't "work" or not, depending on your definition of "work" is not the whole story. Areas of engineering that most part-time or hobby users don't even consider *are* considered and destruction tested in the lab and on the teams to produce a set of recommendations about what components are properly compatible with what.

Each Service Centre then observes the behaviour of the components in the market and share that infomation with all the other Service Centres through a closed communication group and twice-yearly technical meetings at the factory, so as to assist ongoing development of the product and new "running change" modifications and recommendations.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

joeyb1000
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by joeyb1000

joeyb1000 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:18 pm
I understand the question: Can you use an 11-32 casette with a short cage derailleur?

Yes. I tested it out. It does work (i.e. 34/32).

Campy's specs are done so that you would be able to use the second cog with the large chainring (50/28). If you are going to stay with the short cage, I would avoid this combination.
Just some additional comments:
- I agree with Graeme on this issue.
- I purchased the 11/32 cassette and medium cage derailleur. Before I put on the medium cage, I checked to see if the short cage would “work”, and it did. I’m not saying it’s a great idea, but if you don’t have the money, then...
- The HO medium cage shifts better than the short cage non-HO derailleur it replaced on all cassette combinations. 12/25 is my most common cassette.
- The Potenza 11/32 isn’t the same quality as the Chorus/R/SR cassettes.

Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

joeyb1000 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:12 pm

- The HO medium cage shifts better than the short cage non-HO derailleur it replaced on all cassette combinations. 12/25 is my most common cassette.
- The Potenza 11/32 isn’t the same quality as the Chorus/R/SR cassettes.
Good to know. My short Chorus has been damaged somewhat in a car crash (developed top pivot play) and I plan to replace it with a medium cage HO Record. I switch between a 12-25 SR and 11-32 Centaur. the Centaur looks pretty rough (and it is heavy) but doesn't seem to shift worse than Chorus or SR.

by Weenie


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