anyone has seen this before (tire bedding failing) ?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:37 pm
What rim dvq IRC use the Shimano standard for there tyre design and use there rims for testing. Campagnolo 2 way fit is the same, Mavic UST is so close that it's the same and kinlin is somewhere in between so that's the same too.

Rims that deviate from this standard can have bead hook radiuses that are too sharp or simply the wrong shape ( enve ses3,4 for example). Such rims may result in tyre failure.

It's not the tyres fault but rims made to a that will do standard. Also some alloy rims have sharp bead hooks. It not just carbon rims.

Reminder that my IRC tire failure was identical to dvq’s and the rims I used were hookless. It’s the tire in the case of the IRC. It’s not even a batch issue because he was using file tread X-Guards and I was using the file tread Pro Lights.

sungod
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by sungod

dorin wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:56 pm
there are so many Zipps out there and carbon clinchers, if carbon rims are the culprit shouldn’t the net be flooded by examples like this?
if it's a marginal compatibility issue influenced by batch variation and/or other factors, it's logical that failure rates could be very low - after all, reputable manufacturers will do all they reasonably can to reduce risk, but they don't have control of other components, usage, environment etc., there'll always be outliers

or it may simply be due to a faulty tyre

or maybe it was degraded by heat build up due to braking on the long descent mentioned

or something else

without in-depth investigation there's no way to be sure, we're all just speculating :D

by Weenie


dorin
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by dorin

sungod wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:03 pm
without in-depth investigation there's no way to be sure, we're all just speculating :D
I’ll put another Conti on it and report on this thread if something happens, till now I like to believe is one isolated case...:)

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Calnago
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by Calnago

A good idea when something like this happens is to mark the rim where the problem occurred. That way, if the same problem occurs again, and you can see it’s in the same place, then that’s a good indication you examine the rim very carefully in that area.
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dorin
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by dorin

Calnago wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:42 pm
A good idea when something like this happens is to mark the rim where the problem occurred. That way, if the same problem occurs again, and you can see it’s in the same place, then that’s a good indication you examine the rim very carefully in that area.
Did that already, marked on the rim tape, roughly the area based on the picture I took. I hope is an isolated combination of variables as the thought of not trusting your tires even at 40km/h is scary...

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

And did you and dvq let the us importer know. Again complaining on the web solves nothing if you felt it was a warranty issue you should have taken it up. How can any manufacturer address any potential issue unless it is reported and have the part back to investigate.
IRC are not aware of your failures because you have not reported them.

On bike radar Hutchinson tubeless tyres fail at the bead. Shall we slam Hutchinson now.

For any part a failure go through the retailer/importer to report it.

There are assumptions being made and in general it is never wise to assume.

dvq
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by dvq

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:00 pm
And did you and dvq let the us importer know. Again complaining on the web solves nothing if you felt it was a warranty issue you should have taken it up. How can any manufacturer address any potential issue unless it is reported and have the part back to investigate.
IRC are not aware of your failures because you have not reported them.

On bike radar Hutchinson tubeless tyres fail at the bead. Shall we slam Hutchinson now.

For any part a failure go through the retailer/importer to report it.

There are assumptions being made and in general it is never wise to assume.
Listen I get it, you have a vested interest -- you're a UK distributor for IRC -- I'm not here to make sure your business dealings with IRC are sustained, that's your problem. Report it up the chain to the mfg if you care that much. I've moved on because no other tire has ever given me issues, nor have I ever even once thought about what bead profile standards are being used, I haven't ever even seen that information available. I'm just here to give anecdotal experience -- if any of the hutchinsons I've been trying (Galaktic, Performance, All Weather, or Sectors) fail in such a way I'll be sure to post up in any relevant threads that come up.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

not a vested interest. failures need to be known and investigated that is the only way a problem can be dealt with. otherwise if there is an issue (it might have been a batch issue who knows we'll never know) then it cannot be addressed unless reported.

As I said hutchinson are failing like your IRC have done in the U.K not many mind so not a problem (we hope)but the people who have had tyre failure have been advised to return to windwave or the retailer as it is a potential warranty. I refer to this because it was brought up by tomhatesyou but it applies to conti too. A tyre failure at the bead is a warranty regardless of the distance covered.

This is the point I am trying to make not a defence of IRC. failures should be investigated to improve the product.

sungod
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by sungod

^^^this is good advice

if possible defects/compatibility issues aren't reported, manufacturers will take longer to become aware and investigate or take any necessary action

dvq
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by dvq

bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:38 pm
not a vested interest. failures need to be known and investigated that is the only way a problem can be dealt with. otherwise if there is an issue (it might have been a batch issue who knows we'll never know) then it cannot be addressed unless reported.

As I said hutchinson are failing like your IRC have done in the U.K not many mind so not a problem (we hope)but the people who have had tyre failure have been advised to return to windwave or the retailer as it is a potential warranty. I refer to this because it was brought up by tomhatesyou but it applies to conti too. A tyre failure at the bead is a warranty regardless of the distance covered.

This is the point I am trying to make not a defence of IRC. failures should be investigated to improve the product.
sungod wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:15 pm
^^^this is good advice

if possible defects/compatibility issues aren't reported, manufacturers will take longer to become aware and investigate or take any necessary action
Or maybe quality control standards should be the tire manufacturer's responsibilitiy rather than the consumer reporting it after a potentialy dangerous failure.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

sungod wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:15 pm
^^^this is good advice

if possible defects/compatibility issues aren't reported, manufacturers will take longer to become aware and investigate or take any necessary action
Every brand should have one person who trawls through the popular fora. I can report GP4K SII sidewall failures over and over, but they’ve done nothing about it. Luckily I have no issue with moving on to better tires from other manufacturers. I may revisit IRC at some point, but honestly their US distribution sucks and their prices anywhere aren’t competitive with Starbike’s prices on various Hutchinson Fusciin 5s or Mavic’s Yksion Pro UST.

dorin
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by dorin

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:08 pm
sungod wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:15 pm
^^^this is good advice

if possible defects/compatibility issues aren't reported, manufacturers will take longer to become aware and investigate or take any necessary action
[...] I can report GP4K SII sidewall failures over and over, but they’ve done nothing about it. [...]
Multiple failures?! As more than one? That’s scary now...fastest I descended was 97km/h and I always relied on the tires...

sungod
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by sungod

dvq wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:43 pm
Or maybe quality control standards should be the tire manufacturer's responsibilitiy rather than the consumer reporting it after a potentialy dangerous failure.
by your reasoning you'd not report a failing bridge that put peoples' lives at risk because it was the builder's responsibility

fortunately not all humanity behaves in that way

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

sungod wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:44 pm

by your reasoning you'd not report a failing bridge that put peoples' lives at risk because it was the builder's responsibility

fortunately not all humanity behaves in that way

We reported it here in the presence of a UK importer for the brand (who has defended the quality of the tires.) He can easily report back our findings to the right channel. What more would you ask of us?

by Weenie


dvq
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by dvq

sungod wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:44 pm
dvq wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:43 pm
Or maybe quality control standards should be the tire manufacturer's responsibilitiy rather than the consumer reporting it after a potentialy dangerous failure.
by your reasoning you'd not report a failing bridge that put peoples' lives at risk because it was the builder's responsibility

fortunately not all humanity behaves in that way
Shit I didn't know by buying a pair of tires I entered into a social contract with the rest of humanity. Consider the mfg notified through this thread.

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