Campagnolo Chorus/steel v. (Super) Record/titanium cogs

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
robertbb
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by robertbb

Good chat.
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Boshk
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by Boshk

novice questions here, campy only does 11-32 in Potenza. Would it be possible to mix & match like you did with the titanium cogs but replace the 29th cog with a Potenza 32?
I know its a MASSIVE jump from 26 to 32.....just wondering.

Can it be done with shimano, replace some Ultegra cogs (11-32) with the equivalent titanium portion of DA (11-30)?
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RussellS
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by RussellS

Boshk wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:24 am
novice questions here, campy only does 11-32 in Potenza. Would it be possible to mix & match like you did with the titanium cogs but replace the 29th cog with a Potenza 32?
I know its a MASSIVE jump from 26 to 32.....just wondering.

Can it be done with shimano, replace some Ultegra cogs (11-32) with the equivalent titanium portion of DA (11-30)?
You can sort of replace, mix and match cogs. Key is having all individual cogs. This thread is talking about clusters of three cogs, 23-26-29. So it would be hard to replace the 29 cog with a 3 cog. And I'm not sure if Potenza uses clusters or if all cogs are individual. Back in the 9 and 10 speed Camapgnolo world most or all the cogs were individual on most of the groups. I put a 28 cog onto a Veloce nine speed cassette. Before Campanolo offered a cassette with 28 big cog. Did something similar on the last cog with a Chorus or Record cassette on ten speed. Its real easy to just put a bigger cog on the last spot if cogs are individual. But with clusters, things are more difficult.

With your Ultegra Dura Ace question, The DA 11-30 cassette has 19-21-24 and 27-30 clusters at the end. The Ultegra 11-32 cassette has 20-22 and 25-28-32 clusters at the end. So to mix and match Ultegra and Dura Ace cassettes, you have to take BOTH clusters from one or the other. You could run DA 11-12-13-14-15-17 individual cogs. And then Ultegra 20-22 and 25-28-32 clusters. Not sure this would be an advantage.

robertbb
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by robertbb

Boshk wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:24 am
novice questions here, campy only does 11-32 in Potenza. Would it be possible to mix & match like you did with the titanium cogs but replace the 29th cog with a Potenza 32?
I know its a MASSIVE jump from 26 to 32.....just wondering.

Can it be done with shimano, replace some Ultegra cogs (11-32) with the equivalent titanium portion of DA (11-30)?
You have to be careful with replacing cogs willy nilly. They are designed to work together in such a way that you get smooth shifting.

I have an 11-32 Potenza cassette I've used for Alpine rides, and frankly I don't like the massive jumps and I'm going to sell it. I'd far prefer to get a 12-29 and replace the 16t individual cog with a Miche Primato 32t cog up top. You can't do this with the Potenza 32t because it's riveted to the two cogs below it in a group of 3.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/m ... campagnolo

(Site down at the moment, but I have it bookmarked.)
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Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Potenza has a cluster for the large 3, only the rest are individual. I hate the jumps too but only on a flat ride - in the hills i mostly use the extremes. For this reasons I see no practical reason to switch to 12 speed, that extra 16t does nothing for me. On the flats I use a 12-25 and that has 3 extra cogs in the middle range, not just one.


... 15 17 19 22 25 ...
... 15 16 17 18 19 21 23 25

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

the miche cogs should not be used with a campagnolo cassette. the shifting will be off. they should be used only with miche cassettes for campagnolo. Also the profile of the cassette should not be outlandish a 6t jump will result in poor shifting, it will shift but not cleanly. Miche cassettes are not campag copies they are the own system that is compaible with campagnolo hense they cant be interchanged. why do people always make assumptions?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

the sites back up as well. campagnolo cassete are not customisable miche ones to a certain extent.

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swright
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by swright

@Boshk,

On a Potenza 11-32T 11s, it looks like the top cluster is a 25-28-32, preceded by an individual 22t cog. No cassette in the Super Record/Record/Chorus line has a 22t cog in the 8th position, so the shifting may be iffy if at all possible were you to mix cogs.

Looks like Potenza has an 11-29T and a 12-27T -- would either of those work for your situation? What size chainrings are you riding?

One more option: you could run a Shimano 11s cassette (or suitable cog mix) of your choice if you change the freehub spline (difficulty depends on your freehub make -- I swapped on Mavics without a hitch). The Shimano 11s cassettes are compatible with the current Campy 11s Super Record/Record/Chorus (I have done it and didn't experience any noticeable shifting irregularities). Possibly Potenza could yield a different/unsatisfactory experience...

I wonder why Campy goes through the hassle of a separate series of cassettes for Potenza/Centaur 11s cassettes as compared to Super Record/Record/Chorus 11s -- all the loose cogs on Potenza/Centaur 11s smaller than 16t are the same part numbers as Super Record/Record/Chorus. The 16t to 21t (loose) cogs in Potenza/Centaur 11s are unique to the range, however.

cheers,
Scott
2003 Klein Q Carbon Race (aluminum with carbon fiber seatstays) in purple haze, Campagnolo Record 11s groupset, Bora 50 Ultra (rim-brake clincher) wheelset, full Deda Elementi finishing kit, Fabric ALM Ultimate saddle [7.2kg/15.9lbs]

WheelNut
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:51 pm

by WheelNut

swright wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:24 pm
I wonder why Campy goes through the hassle of a separate series of cassettes for Potenza/Centaur 11s cassettes as compared to Super Record/Record/Chorus 11s -- all the loose cogs on Potenza/Centaur 11s smaller than 16t are the same part numbers as Super Record/Record/Chorus. The 16t to 21t (loose) cogs in Potenza/Centaur 11s are unique to the range, however.
The Potenza/Centaur cassettes have loose cogs from the 1st to the 8th position with only one 3 cog group. The grouped cogs have the same part numbers as their Chorus equivalents. Chorus and higher don't have any cassettes with loose cogs above 16 or 17 tooth, so Campy had to introduce new loose cogs for the Potenza/Centaur groups. Loose cogs are cheaper to produce than grouped cogs, so having only one grouped cog cluster will make the cassette cheaper. One curiousity to note is that the part numbers for the large loose cogs on the Potenza/Centaur cassettes are actually 10 speed part numbers (10S-212 for a 21 tooth cog in Potenza cassette). So, it possible that these cogs are using old 10 speed production tooling. It might be possible to use 10 speed cogs with 11 speed drive trains given you use 11 speed spacers, which could open up more customization posibilities.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Just because part numbers stay the same diesxnot mean the cogs are the same. The sprockets will be thinner.

mriddle
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by mriddle

I have a SR 12/27 cassette on one of my bikes. I change my chains around 2,000-2,500 miles to avoid any issues. I buy chorus chains for about $34 when I can.

I changed a chain on the SR cassette and had a horrible “hop” while on a couple of the ti cogs that apparently had worn to the old chain. Again, maybe 2500 miles which is not that much for a campy chain.

I replaced the 3 ti cog cluster (17/19/21) with a steel version, effectively turning the SR cassette into a Record cassette. No issues.

Pretty much only buy chorus (steel) cassettes and chains regardless of what group I’m running.

fogman
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by fogman

I have experienced the same issues as @mriddle with titanium cogs. They seem to wear faster than the steel cogs. So the chain would skip when I replaced it. I have switched to Chorus cassettes on an otherwise full Super Record group set and have had no chain skipping since. I try to replace the chain at approximately 1750 miles to further minimize cassette wear.
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

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swright
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by swright

I haven't put enough miles on my titanium cogs to comment on wear, but the Campagnolo 11s Chains manual specifies a chain lifetime of "2000 to 5000 miles, depending on the conditions of use and the frequency and quality of maintenance operations." Sounds like you can't go wrong with chain replacement on a 2000 mile interval.

Myself, I clean and lube my chain fairly regularly, with a minimum biweekly lube and monthly chain cleaning with the Park Tool CM-5.2 chain scrubber. (I also ride only tarmac -- no gravel or off-roading.)

How does the Chorus chain differ from the (Super) Record chain (apart from an extra 21g and less money)?

cheers,
Scott
2003 Klein Q Carbon Race (aluminum with carbon fiber seatstays) in purple haze, Campagnolo Record 11s groupset, Bora 50 Ultra (rim-brake clincher) wheelset, full Deda Elementi finishing kit, Fabric ALM Ultimate saddle [7.2kg/15.9lbs]

istigatrice
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by istigatrice

The Record chain has hollow pins (vs Chorus). Not sure about this, but (in addition) I think the record chain will have a lower friction surface treatment, and perhaps has higher tolerances (campy calls it "special" steel links). If it is the case that the tolerances are higher, I'd suggest that more than justifies the price difference of the two.

Not sure if this is vodoo (or legit science), but if you're chasing every last watt (and don't trust/want ceramicspeed) use the lightest chain you can.
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by Weenie


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